Yes. People are putting him on the same level as Jordan and Lebron when he has no right to be on the same level. And many many people believe that he is better than Lebron.
5.7k people liked a pic where Kobe was placed #2 after Jordan and ahead of Lebron.
800+ people liked a comment where somebody said that ‘nobody really thinks Lebron is better than Kobe’
15k people liked this post.. that’s ridiculous.
It just shows how many casual basketball fans are out there and who genuinely believe this nonsense about Kobe.
Notice how they can’t use any stats and awards in Kobe’s favor except for raw scoring peaks + rings. That’s all they got.
First of all, Lebron beats Kobe in PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, SPG, FG% (both regular season + playoffs), total points, rebounds, assists, steals, PER, WS/48, total win shares, +/-, VORP, TS%, etc virtually every stat except for FT%.
Then for awards, Lebron beats Kobe in MVP, FMVP, All-NBA selections, ROTY and assist titles. Kobe beats Lebron in championships, All-Def and scoring titles.
So the reasons why people seem to rank Kobe over Lebron is reasons unrelated to stats, since their reasoning is ‘Kobe has worse stats but still wins more!’ which is totally erroneous and false and based almost entirely on # of championships.
So let’s go through that post and point out what’s wrong with it, because to me it’s how a total newcomer to basketball who doesn’t watch the games would go about putting Kobe ahead.
“Shaq was swept 5 times and had 0 rings before Kobe joined him”
Ok.. and? Shaq was also swept WITH Kobe on the team as a starter too in 1999? So it’s not like Kobe becoming a starter automatically resulted in Shaq winning rings. It was the addition of Phil Jackson that really changed things in 2000.
“Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq”
Well Shaq was declining and Kobe was in his prime. That doesn’t mean that Shaq wasn’t the main guy for their championship run.
“Kobe went on to win more rings than Shaq”
Still doesn’t mean that Shaq wasn’t the main guy for their 3-peat..
“Kobe went to 3 straight Finals during Lebrons prime and Lebron didn’t make the Finals any of those years”
Lebron made the Finals in 2007 when Kobe was in his prime getting bounced out of the 1st round correct? Then Kobe had a better team than Lebron did after he got Gasol and went to 3 Finals. Why do people make it seem like it was ALL Kobe? Like it’s some 1v1 street fighter tournament and Kobe advanced and Lebron lost or something. Basketball is a team game.
“Kobe only had 1 all-star teammate for all his rings”
And so what. Hakeem had only 1 all-star teammate for all his rings too. Does that make him better than Kareem, Magic, Bird and Lebron? Ben Wallace had 0 all-star teammates when he beat Kobe. So is he better than Kobe?
“No player in NBA history has played with more superstars than Lebron”
Who makes up these numbers? Did someone actually count the # of superstars each player has played with? And how many of them were in their prime? Did you guys know Jordan played with George Gervin for a season, Robert Parish coming off the bench, Artis Gilmore for a season? Do you guys remember Dennis Rodman, Gary Payton, Dwight, Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice, Horace Grant, Steve Nash, Karl Malone all playing with Kobe? No? Seems that everyone remembers Lebron playing with Rondo, Dwight, Ray Allen, Melo and all these old guys but don’t apply the same criteria to Jordan or Kobe. Huh.
“Lebron has a losing record in the Finals”
And so what. Why does it matter? So Jerry West sucks because he’s 1–8 in the Finals? John Havlicek is 8–0 in the Finals and so is he better than Jordan and Kobe?
“Did the stats lead to an impact on winning efficiency?”
Lebron has won more playoff games than anyone else in NBA history. So where’s this ‘Kobe wins more than Lebron’ thing coming from? Just from the Finals record? a single series determines who wins more? Wow.
“Kobe won more rings than Lebron at a better efficiency”
What does ‘better efficiency’ mean? Like he has a better Finals record? So David Robinson 2–0 that’s 100% efficiency so is he better than Wilt who was 2–4 in the Finals?
“If you bring up Horry he was a role player not leading his team to rings”
I can however, bring up Scottie Pippen. Pippen was the #2 player just like Kobe was on his first 3 rings. Pippen has a 6–0 Finals record. Kobe has 3 rings as a #2 and 2 rings as a #1 but it seems Kobe fans group the rings altogether as if he was #1 on all of them. No.. it’s more like he was Jordan for 40% of them and Pippen for 60% of them. Not Jordan for 100% of them like people seem to think.
“If you bring up Bill Russell there was 8 teams in the NBA”
I can however, bring up Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. 6–4 in the Finals. Main guy for at least 3 of them. So why do Kobe fans consider him better than Kareem? What’s Kobe’s argument over Kareem?
See how overrated Kobe is? All of his arguments are lacking logic, or are a very shallow view of judging basketball players. Just count # of Finals losses, # of rings, # of all stars and the player with the most rings with least finals losses and least all-star help wins. No need to watch the games or look at the stats. This retarded, shallow view of ranking players is what leads to Kobe being so overrated.
Also I just want to mention this.. if Kobe is such a great scorer, how come Lebron averages 4 more PPG in the playoffs than him? How come Kobe gets routinely outscored in the playoffs? How come he only has 1 Finals averaging over 30PPG compared to Lebron’s 5? How come his playoff high is only 50?
If Kobe had such clutch ability and ‘mamba mentality’ why does he average only 22 PPG in elimination games? and 8–11 in such games if he’s such a ‘winner’. While Lebron averages 33 PPG in elimination and is 12–9 in such games. Why does Lebron win 16–6 head to head vs Kobe and averages better stats in every category if Kobe always wins? Why did Kobe blow a 3–1 lead to a Suns team missing their second best player? Why is Kobe 7/28 in last 24s of playoff games if he’s so clutch?
If Kobe was such a great defender why do opposing guards always seem to have a duel with him? You always see Kobe have duels with everyone from Tmac to Iverson to Melo to Pierce to Rip Hamilton to Brandon Roy. Why is having so many duels with the opposing guard if he’s supposedly a ‘lockdown’ defender? Why did the guy he was guarding win Finals MVP both times (Billups + Pierce)?
John Havlicek has more points than Bird, more rings than Jordan, more Finals MVPs than Karl Malone, more All-Def teams than Dwight, more All-NBA selections than Curry, why isn’t he top 10 all time?
You will see Kobe fans use quotes a lot. See, because they have a lack of statistical evidence (except for all the ‘scoring explosions’ in the regular season) and a lack of awards (except for rings) they bring up a bunch of quotes, the 5 rings and the reg season scoring numbers up a lot. That’s all they have.
All inaccurate or misleading. Jordan was choosing based on who would beat him 1v1, not in a 5v5 game and he only said that because he said Kobe stole all his moves. Larry Bird only picked Kobe to play with and said Kobe was a winner, because this is from a 2012 interview before Lebron won any rings. Also in that same interview Bird said that Lebron was the most dominant player in the league by far, but they completely omit that part and focus on the part where he picked Kobe. Magic, Shaq, Wade etc may have picked Kobe over Lebron at various points in the past but have since changed their minds to Lebron. You can’t take a quote from a player in 2012 and then say oh that means Kobe is better than Lebron NOW after Lebron has won 4 rings since then. An example of how Kobe fans warp the facts.
Spoken like a true casual. In what world is Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Trevor Ariza the ‘worst’ team in the NBA?
Kobe fans so desperate to fit him in the GOAT convo. Look, you can’t be the GOAT of your sport if there is a player (Jordan) that is strictly superior in every way at your position. It just doesn’t make sense.
Not only is this picture photoshopped, but Kobe has a losing record vs Lebron head to head. Lebron averages 28/8/7 on 48% shooting and is 16–6 vs Kobe head to head. Kobe averages 24/5/5 on 44% shooting in those matchups. Kobe fans really like to make stuff up eh?
Wow so Kobe dropped 55 on old Jordan. What an accomplishment. What about Allan Houston dropping 53 on Kobe that same season? Is Houston better than Kobe then? David Robinson scored 71 points in a game, Jordan didn’t. Robinson is better? Karl Malone scored more points than Kobe and Jordan so is he better?
A lie. I see this from Kobe fans all the time. Kobe never averaged 40 PPG in any playoffs. His playoff average high was 33 PPG in 2007. Nor did Kobe ever average 40 PPG in any playoff series. It’s just more made up BS that’s all.
This might be one of the worst posts I’ve ever seen. All delusional BS here.
First of all Kobe played half of his career post hand checking rules changes.
Secondly, why the hell is his rape case and org instability made into some sort of positive for Kobe? Kobe caused those things himself.
Thirdly, Kobe most certainly did NOT win 2 rings on his own – in fact he couldn’t even get out of the first round until Lakers traded for Gasol.
Fourthly, I hate how Kobe fans reward him for being inefficient saying it’s because he took ‘tough shots’ here’s an idea – how about not taking any tough shots and being more efficient? If I shot 10% in a pickup game I can just say ‘oh I took alot of tough shots, not my fault’ and get praised for it?
Fifthly, Kobe never had scoring explosions in the playoffs. There’s a reason for that.. it’s because the defenses got tighter in the playoffs and he was facing tougher teams there. All those regular season scoring stuff doesn’t mean a thing. And ironically they like to hate on Lebron for stat padding – if shooting 40+ times in a game against a bad team isn’t stat padding then I don’t know what is.
Sixthly, Phil Jackson gave him the biggest green light out of any superstar so to say he held Kobe back is digusting.
Lastly, the ‘killer instinct’ stuff is just buzzwords that have no substance behind it. All his scoring achievements are regular season only, and he most definitely did not win 2 rings by himself.
Typical example of a brainwashed Kobe fan. Whatever Kobe does if he wins its ALL him (pretend Shaq + Gasol didnt exist) and whenever he loses then it’s his teammates or he had injuries not his fault. Meanwhile for Lebron it’s the opposite – whenever Lebron loses it’s all his fault he got locked up choked etc if he won then it was his teammates who saved his legacy or he was stat padding etc doesn’t count or it was weak east or bubble ring etc gotta discredit him as much as possible.
Prime example here is when he said Kobe ‘destroyed’ the Spurs and Lebron was ‘locked up’ by the Spurs.
Kobe vs Spurs in 2004: 26/6/6/46% = ‘destroyed’ Spurs + Bruce Bowen
Lebron vs Spurs in 2014: 28/8/4/57% = ‘locked up’ by Spurs + Kawhi
So given all the guards that dropped their career highs on him (Gilbert Arenas, Jeremy Lin, Allan Houston, Stephon Marbury) you’re telling me that Kobe didn’t guard ANY of them? When he’s a 12x All-Def player?
First of all notice how Kobe fans always have to bring up the 62 in 3 quarters and 81 points like a broken record. Secondly, imagine if Lebron shot 46 times in a game.. he’d be accused of stat padding for sure. There’s just way more Lebron haters than Kobe haters that’s why you hear people say Lebron stat pads more.. nobody credible says this, just twitter haters. You don’t stat pad your way to 10 Finals and 4 FMVPs. It’s just a convenient way to hate on a player you don’t like, just like ‘bubble ring’.
First of all Kobe fans seem to think whenever he loses he always had Smush + Kwame. Lol he played with those guys only 2 seasons out of a 20 year career.
Secondly.. Lebron dropped 40 on Kobe including the game winner in his face.. and this was when Lebron had Zydrunas as his second best player and Kobe had Gasol…
So basically Finals games are the only ones where the losses count? Lebron has the most playoff wins ever that doesn’t count?
More lies. First of all it’s definitely not true that more NBA players think Kobe is better than Lebron.
Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe – back before Lebron won his 4th ring!
So notice how all these Kobe fans say ‘majority’ of NBA players think he’s better and never give any proof of this?
Secondly no media did NOT hate on Kobe in fact they gave him a bunch of free All-Def selections even when he wasn’t playing any defense. Lebron on the other hand.. whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about Lebron media posts about it. Brian Windhorst says that Lebron ‘wears out teams’? They spread it everywhere. Rodman says he can lock down Lebron? They spread it everywhere. Dr J says that Lebron isn’t in his top 5? Spread it everywhere. Lebron posts ‘keep the energy’ and then misses the playoffs? Media makes fun of him. Lebron posts a covid joke? Kareem and everyone else come out to make fun of him and media spreads these quotes everywhere. See, since did the media love Lebron? Media has hated on Lebron ever since The Decision.
Meanwhile I have not seen a single piece of negative news the media has said about Kobe since his retirement in 2016. Even less so after his tragic passing.
Thirdly, ‘Lebron’s media team members’ are really just analysts who recognize that Lebron is greater than Kobe. That doesn’t mean they have to be Lebron fanboys. Does Kareem have a bunch of media fanboys then? cause he’s also ranked ahead of Kobe higher on their lists.
See these Kobe fans are so delusional and in denial, they genuinely live in their own world where it’s an echo chamber they all think Kobe was robbed of MVP and belongs in the GOAT convo and then someone outside of their bubble tells them otherwise they say there’s a conspiracy against Kobe. You can’t make this stuff up.
This is just a snippet of how many delusional Kobe fans there are out there, but you’ll notice all of their arguments are based on very shallow stuff like quotes from NBA players, scoring numbers in reg season, 5 rings, ‘mamba mentality and work ethic etc’, gives him ALL the credit whenever he wins, but gets NONE of the blame whenever he loses, add on some conspiracy theories about him being robbed of MVP, puts him in the GOAT convo based on emotional arguments only and add on to that some made up BS sometimes. This is the typical Kobe fan. All emotion, no factual evidence or substance. That’s why they’re the worst fans in the NBA.
So many people seem to think that Kobe is in the GOAT conversation.
The problem is all of these articles and videos are very poor arguments for Kobe’s goat case.
Like, what is Kobe’s real GOAT case? what’s the one thing he has that nobody else possesses? nothing, really.
Sure he has 5 rings. Russell has 11. Kareem has 6. Jordan has 6. Magic has 5 too.
Sure he scored 81 points. Wilt scored 100. Both regular season games against bad teams.
Sure he’s 15x All-NBA. Lebron has even more.
Sure he’s 18x All-Star. Kareem has even more.
Sure he’s 12x All-Def. Duncan has even more.
Sure he has 2 scoring titles. Jordan has 8 more.
Sure he’s scored 33k points. Kareem, Lebron and Karl Malone have all scored more.
Sure he’s 2x Finals MVP. Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Magic all have more.
Sure he’s 1x MVP. A lot of players have had more including Giannis, Jokic and Steve Nash.
Sure he averages 25 PPG.. alot of players have averaged more.. even Bob Pettit and George Gervin!
So there’s nothing that Kobe possesses that hasn’t been exceeded by other players. That’s why he has absolutely no GOAT case whatsoever and yet so many people keep trying to put him in that conversation.
If you have to rely on quotes from other people for your GOAT case instead of factual stats and evidence then there’s something wrong there already. Ask Bob Pettit who his GOAT is and he’ll say Russell. Ask Dr J who his GOAT is and he’ll say Kareem. Every generation has their own GOATs. You can find quotes from any player about your player of choice as the GOAT. Heck Wilt even said Meadowlark Lemon was his personal GOAT – a guy who never played in the NBA .
But I think where the real divide is between casual fans and analysts. Casual fans always seem to rank Kobe super high, much higher than analysts do. Why is this? It might be because casuals focus on Kobe’s highlights, his flashy style of play, his ‘mamba mentality’ at work, his reputation for being clutch (even though he really wasn’t), his work ethic, and the whole mystique around him being this legendary player who apparently never slept or ate and worked out all the time and ‘willed’ his teams to victory (even though he actually lost a lot). It’s a kind of selective memory because he has so many fans who idolize him, they always give him all the credit whenever he wins but never give him the blames for any of his losses. That’s why losses are always chalked up to ‘injury’ ‘bad teammates’ ‘played in a tough conference’ etc.
But for analysts it’s a different story.
Sports publications like ESPN and Sports Illustrated never rank Kobe higher than #9
Evaluating solely on peaks and Finals performances.. Kobe doesn’t even crack the top 10.
And so it’s usually the casual fans from a high level that only talk about his regular season scoring stuff (50/60 pt streak, 62 in 3 quarters, 81 pts etc) and his 5 rings but when you dig into Kobe’s games thats when you find the cracks.
What were Kobe’s best playoff games?
These were probably his best playoff games. A grand total of 5.
These are all the games where he scored 35+ in the Finals. a grand total of 4. Out of 37 Finals games.
Now you might think that’s a decent amount right? Not for a guy who’s so called in the GOAT convo.
Uh oh.. so Lebron definitely beats him here.. and Lebron is a pass first guy too!
Oh.. Jerry West too.
Uh oh.. Rick Barry too? And Rick Barry only played in 2 Finals!
KD seems to match Kobe (of course with way better efficiency too!)
Steph Curry has outdone Kobe in the Finals too it seems
So has Kareem
Looks like Iverson basically matches Kobe’s output.
and Baylor has definitely had his share of high scoring games.
and obviously Jordan.
Even Sam Jones has more 35pt+ games in the Finals than Kobe!! Sam freaking Jones!
Kobe – 109 games with 30+ shots. Lebron – only 33 games with 30+ shots. AND Lebron averages more PPG despite that.
You might be thinking why focus on the points scored though.. well because that’s a HUGE part of Kobe’s GOAT case isn’t it? Is how ‘unstoppable’ of a scorer he is! Well.. how come SO many guys have had at least as many scoring explosions as Kobe or more?
Ok well maybe its not just the offense.. Kobe’s 12x All-Def right? What about his defense?
Well.. how many times has Kobe locked up anybody in the playoffs or the Finals?
Uh oh.. that’s just the non Hall of Famers too! If we go into opposing Hall of Famers – Iverson, Tmac, KG, Melo, Duncan, Parker, Pierce, Dirk, KD etc have all outscored him of course as well. And yes Kobe did’t guard all these guys, but I think it’s safe to say that Kobe was routinely outscored in the playoffs by opposing players, it happened in more than half of his games!
So he’s not exactly a lockdown perimeter defender either…
Is it his clutch ability then?
Nope.. not that either. At least not in the playoffs.
So what is Kobe’s GOAT case then?
That’s why it’s infuriating that so many NBA casuals believe he’s the GOAT. In the regular season there could be an argument.. but in the playoffs? He’s been exceeded by many players who nobody would consider top 10 (like Rick Barry) and the fact that so many compare him to Jordan is really annoying too because he’s not even close to Jordan if you really look into it! They have similar moves but Kobe cannot use Jordan’s moves as effectively. He averages 5 PPG less on 5% worse efficiency and that of course has a lot to do with his 8 less scoring titles and 4 less MVPs as well. Lebron is also obviously way more efficient than Kobe and has done way more in the playoffs and Finals than him as well. In fact, every one of Lebron’s Finals performances after 2011 is better than Kobe’s best Finals in 2009.
People, stop putting Kobe in the same conversation as Jordan and Lebron. He doesn’t belong there.