Alot of people got butthurt when ESPN came out with their rankings and Kobe was *gasp* only #12. I’m not surprised at all, and I mentioned this before, but hey people like to flame me because I have facts and their only response to me not having Kobe top 5 all time is “you don’t know basketball”. So here’s my basketball knowledge:
Kobe bryant is overrated:
-career average: 25/5/5 45% 2P FG 33% FG 3P
-record lowest FG % in Finals: 38% in 2000, and highest: 51% in 2009
-81 point game yes but also against the raptors and took 46 shots
-Kobe in general takes a lot of FGA, 9 times in a game took over 40 shots
-selfish player, ball hog, drove shaq and d-howard away from LA as well as other free agents, wouldn’t take a pay cut in his later years
-1 MVP only, and 2 Finals MVPs if you take off his rings thats his only other hardware
-had good teams for most of his career despite what people say: only 2005-2007 and 2013-present he has crap teams
-5 championships but he won all 5 coached by Phil Jackson and his first 3 rings with Shaq who dominated the playoffs with 30/14 averages
-Lebron has never played with a team as good as Kobe had except when he was in Miami. Duncan played with a washed up Robinson and some late round picks. -He had good role players but so did Kobe. Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry. Plus hall of famers like Pau Gasol, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shaq, D-howard, Nash. Neither Lebron nor Duncan has had the arguably greatest coach of all time, Phil Jackson.
-closest to MJ but very far away from MJ still in terms of everything, stats, awards etc 8 less scoring titles 1 less ring 4 less MVPs/FMVPs lower career stats in every category
-not a good team player, ego drove away Shaq + Howard, took 25 mil salary, prevents young stars from being developed.
-no other top 10 player was a second option or a role player ever in their career.
-lost 2 finals, one on a team full of hall of famers against detroit and one against the celtics losing by the biggest margin in NBA finals history.
-statistically not clutch despite the popular perception that he is
Why is Lebron hated so much?
-because he left to go a team full of other stars? In the salary cap era its hard to start on a team already full of good players like Magic and Bird did. Furthermore, only a few championship teams have ever had only one hall of famer. the 77 Blazers with Walton, 79 supersonics with Dennis Johnson and 94 Rockets with Hakeem come to mind. You could make a case for the 75 Warriors, 04 Pistons and 11 Mavericks as well.
-Kobe and Duncan didn’t have to do this because Kobe did start on a very good team with Shaq and Duncan started on a team with Robinson. Lebron started with nothing and had nothing in the years to come. The cavaliers management gave him nothing.
-His 2-4 record in the finals. first of all, we don’t count finals losses. Jerry West had 8 finals losses and no one calls him out for that. Wilt Chamberlain has the same 2-4 record as Lebron and no one cares about those losses. Second of all, only one of those finals is really Lebrons fault. the 2011 finals he should have won and came up short. That was his fault. But the 07 Cavaliers he carried that team to the finals, remember when he scored 29 of the last 30 points against Detroit that year? and the ’14 Finals D-wade was injured and the Spurs team was just superior that year. Same with last finals, Kyrie irving and kevin love were injured and Lebron took the Warriors to 6 games with averages of 36/14/9. We can’t really say Lebron didn’t try in the finals, cause he did. (except in 2011)
-statistically beats Kobe in every way, FG%, points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, except for FT% the only area where he trails Kobe.
-Kobe has more rings but I already covered that it wasn’t Lebrons fault he lost 3 of those Finals. And he never had anyone like Prime Shaq or Phil Jackson to help him. He does have 3 more MVPs than Kobe does. There are those people who say that MVPs mean nothing and Kobe was robbed of MVPs when I say this, and imo thats just trying really really hard to be a Kobe fanboy. Kobe never was top 3 in MVP votes except in 2008. Kobe never even deserved the 2008 MVP; it should have gone to CP3. At no point in his career was Kobe actually the best player in the game if we look at WP48 and win shares. Duncan, Shaq and Lebron have held that title throughout Kobes career and arguably even Tmac and Dwade were better than Kobe at some point in their careers.
-more clutch than kobe; stats bear this out
-finally, Lebron attracts free agents to play with him (ray allen mike miller etc) whereas Kobe drives away free agents (melo,aldridge, etc) and took a huge salary increase despite the fact that he was injured which gave the Lakers less salary cap to sign free agents; conversely Lebron took a pay cut while in Miami to play with Chris bosh and D-wade
As a side note, here’s what Kobetards usually say when I compare him to Lebron:
1) Kobe has 5 rings.
2) Kobe’s scoring achivements including 81 point game, and scoring 60 points 5+ times in a row etc
3) Kobe is clutch and has killer instinct
4) Kobe is 5-2 in the finals and Lebron is 2-4.
5) Kobe bled purple and gold
6) Kobe was robbed of MVPs
7) Kobe didn’t need another superstar to win
8) Kobe carried his franchise
1) so what? Russell, Sam Jones, Havlicek, Heinsohn, Kareem, Jordan, Duncan all have 5+ rings no one ever brings up rings as much for them. Why do people always mention Kobe’s rings? Because he has every little other hardware, only 1 MVP and 2 finals mvps are probably not going to be as mentioned as much. And despite that fact that Kobe won 3 out of his 5 rings riding with Shaq. No other top 10 player in NBA rankings has ever been a second option or a role player in their career. Kobe has only been a first option for 8 years of his career and people bring up Kobe’s rings the most out of any player even though he has the least reason to brag about them
2) Kobe’s scoring achievements – he also missed the most shots in NBA history what does that tell you? How many shots did Kobe have to take on 45% efficiency in regular season and 40% in the Finals to get to where he is? What does it tell you about the basketball IQ of a player if he purposely takes difficult shots when easier shots are available or when he could pass to an open player?
3) Kobe is not clutch and has missed the most clutch shots out of any top 10 player. I already mentioned this in my other video, go take a look if you want detailed stats, but you can also google Kobe crunchtime stats if you don’t believe me. Kobe has averaged 40% FG during his Finals performances.
4) Again this is related to Kobe’s rings again, but as I said no one cares about finals losses. Wilt chamberlain has the same record as Lebron, 2-4 in the Finals, are you going to argue that Kobe is better than Wilt? John Havlicek is 8-0 in finals and Jordan is 6-0 you wanna argue that Havlicek was better than Jordan? its ridiculous. And Kobe has more first round losses than Lebron I guess that doesn’t count? Since when is losing in the Finals worse than losing in the first round? You make it to the Finals, you have a chance to win, and thats strictly better than having 0% chance to win. That simple.
5) No he wasn’t. When Kobe had a bad team from 2005-2007 (which was his own doing cause he drove Shaq out), he wanted to be traded, including to the Clippers! how soon people forget.
Kobe has probably the most ignorant fan base out of all sports.
6) Kobe was never robbed of MVPs, he was never top 3 in voting except for the year he did win MVP. If anything, Nash robbed Shaq of MVPs not Kobe.
7) sure he did. Ever heard of Shaq? and Pau Gasol? And without those guys, Kobe has never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. And he also had Phil Jackson as well
8) Kobe led 4 out of the 6 worst Lakers teams in NBA history, took the leagues highest salary, shot the most bricks in NBA history, the lowest FG% out of any player in the NBA during the last 2 years and his farewell tour prevents young stars from developing.
I’ve already explained why Lebron and Duncan are better in pretty much every way, from stats to efficiency to being less selfish, so I’m done with that. Kobe is ranked fairly here. He is not top 10 all time. I’m ok with Oscar Robertson being higher. I’m assuming ESPN was using advanced metrics like PER and win shares to rank him, which arent favorable to him, which is why he’s ranked even lower than I expected. It also explains why Iverson and Isiah are ranked lower because those are 2 other players that are very overrated by the public because of the ‘eye’ test, leading you to believe a player was better than they actually were.
Sorry to say it, but its the truth. Kobe has many accomplishments and he is a top 12 – top 8 player all time, but he will never get ranked above that. Why?
-A top 5 player of all time should have more than 1 MVP. Kobe only has one.
-A top 5 player all time should be the alpha dog for almost all his career. Kobe was not the alpha dog or the best player on his team until 2004-ish. Shaq won all three Finals MVPs (deservedly so when you look at his stats) during the first part of his career.
-A top 5 player all time, especially if he is to be considered the best “mid range shooter ever” should be more efficient than shooting 45% from the field and 33% from 3 point range. For comparison, Larry Bird and Dwayne Wade shot 4% better than Kobe from the field, and Adrian Dantley (probably the most efficient mid range shooter I think) shot an astounding 54% from the field, a whole 9% better than Kobe!
-Because of how inefficient Kobe shoots, his advance stats suffer. A top 5 player of all time would never have a PER of a measly 10.7 (Kobe during 2014 season), or produce NEGATIVE win shares for his team (as he did in 2014 and 2016).
-on top of that Kobe isn’t really as clutch as people think. There are numerous articles that prove this. here are just a few:
Kobe might be the least clutch player in the NBA
The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time
LeBron May Be The Most Clutch Playoff Shooter Of His Generation
In the Playoffs, LeBron James Is More Clutch than Kobe
-a top 5 player all time is a good teammate, like Lebron, or Russell, or Wilt/Jordan later in their careers, or Bird, or Magic or Kareem. Instead, Kobe chased Shaq off the team, had numerous locker room issues, chased away free agents during the later part of his career, took a massive salary (the highest at the time) after he got injured, etc
-Kobe in his prime never took his team past the first round of the playoffs until he got Pau Gasol on the team, who I think doesn’t get enough credit for helping the Lakers out. People don’t realize that Gasol was the leader in win shares in 2010 even though Kobe got Finals MVP that year. For all the hate Lebron gets, he took his team all the way to the Finals. It was probably one of the worst teams to make the Finals (yes even worse than 2001 Iverson’s team). Without Shaq/Gasol and Phil Jackson, Kobe couldn’t take his team anywhere. Thats not top 5 player material.
-He doesn’t have any definable moments. Lebron scored the last 29 out of 30 points against the Pistons in 2007, averaged a triple double in the Finals etc. Jordan had numerous great moments. Kareem had that clutch last minute skyhook to force double overtime in the 1974 Finals. Magic had that clutch baby skyhook in 1987 against the Celtics, and that amazing Finals performance as a rookie in 1980. Kobe has that 81 point game going for him – but that’s a regular season game, and it was against a terrible team. that’s about it.
For all the reasons above I don’t think Kobe is a top 5 player all time. (and no I’m not a Kobe hater, I’m just stating the facts. Kobe ranks #9 all time for me).