Categories
Politics

Why do some overseas Chinese desire to see China collapse and fail?

I’m a first generation Chinese immigrant. I was born in China but grew up and educated in the West (Canada).

I don’t want to see China collapse and fail at all, my main concern is the actions that the CCP has taken in recent years has resulted in quite concerning consequences.

The Hu Jintao years were great for China, that was when China became a major world power, the 2008 Beijing Olympics really being the point where I could say wow China has come a long way and now they are on the world stage, caught up to Japan and Korea technology wise, and catching up to the US GDP wise. At that time Chinese were still quite humble about themselves and saw a desire to improve their country.

But after Hu stepped down and Xi Jinping took over, I saw a much more protectionist shift.

Websites blocked in mainland China – Wikipedia

Check out this list of websites blocked in China, and take note of how many of those websites were blocked post 2011 when Xi Jinping came to power. That’s most of the list. Now if you go to China as a tourist, 95% of your apps and websites will probably be blocked. You also won’t be able to use your credit cards anymore, since China is now largely cashless. It’s basically a big F U to foreigners when you go to China.

I myself saw a huge difference when I went to Shanghai first in 2011, then last year in 2018. Back then, I could still access my websites and apps, there was more friendliness to foreigners, and I didn’t sense as much materialism or arrogance back then. Then last year I went back, and although technology has improved a lot – the people have gotten more unfriendly, being a foreigner made you a target, everyone was very materialistic and judged you if you didn’t support China etc

Since Xi took over and in recent years, China has gotten increasingly more aggressive when it comes to blocking or censoring foreign websites and apps. They’ve gotten much more politically sensitive and eager to ban or boycott foreign companies or persons (notably Korea, Japan, Canada and US all suffered some kind of ban or boycott in recent years).

I can see the motivation for Xi Jinping’s approach – which is to protect the Chinese industry and people – but I also think its unhealthy for the people. Because of the degree of censorship, anti-Western bias played by Chinese media and political sensitivity in China these days, Chinese have become more and more nationalistic, less humble and notably, anti-Western, especially compared to the Hu Jintao era.

Now all it takes to get yourself banned from China is to is to be on good terms with the US (Korea, Canada), say something about Hong Kong (NBA, various celebrities, etc) or criticize their human rights abuses (Soccer club Arsenal, South Park etc) or mentioning Winnie the Pooh, Tibet, Taiwan etc any number of things will get yourself banned and criticized on Chinese social media.

Take a look on Quora for example, or other social media (Chinese have to use VPN to access Western social media) and all I see are anti-Western answers and comments saying how Western democracy has failed, Americans are arrogant, theres a anti-Chinese conspiracy going on, Westerners want China to fail (i.e this very question is an example of that), Westerners are all brainwashed to hate China, Americans are hypocrites etc that’s all I see.

I don’t think its healthy to have this anti-Western, pro-Chinese sentiment going on at this degree, and that’s led to Chinese losing their humility and lose sight of what made them improve from the 1990s in the first place which is the ability to self-criticize, learn from their mistakes and improve their country.

What a marked difference from the Hu Jintao era. Now it’s all about ‘China is the best country in the world, we have the best economy, we are allowed to bully other countries because America does it, and anyone who criticizes us must have been brainwashed to do so’

This is a rather concerning development, and its a result of the protectionist / nationalistic push that China has taken in the Xi Jinping years. So it’s not that I have any desire to see China fail, I just disagree with the current Xi Jinping government and most Chinese netizens because I think that their actions in recent years is what leads to a lot of deserved criticism from foreigners and foreign countries, and they don’t seem to acknowledge it or want to change/improve that.

I supported China in the Hu Jintao era. Now, I don’t want to anymore – a lot of China’s uber nationalism, arrogance, hypocritical actions, banning/boycotting and economic bullying of other countries just makes me think of China as the Eastern version of the USA, and that just makes me ashamed to associate myself with Chinese in recent years. I thought China/Chinese were better than that and wanted to be better than USA/Americans, not become like them.

Lest Chinese forget, protectionism and arrogance is exactly what caused the Qing Dynasty to fail…

Categories
Politics

How does a Chinese person living in western countries cope with seeing media that is almost 100% negative to China?

I think there’s a deep misunderstanding by Chinese here; first that Western media is part of some Western conspiracy to bring down China and that by extension, almost all Westerners must hate China (not true).

While it is true that the *majority* of Western media articles are negative towards China, it really doesn’t matter because… most Americans don’t even trust their own media

Americans’ Trust in Mass Media Edges Down to 41%

Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2019-07-02/poll-one-third-of-americans-believe-media-are-enemy-of-the-people

Almost One Third of Americans Don’t Trust the Media: Poll

‘Fake News’ Fears: 95% of Americans ‘Troubled’ by Current State of Media, Poll Finds

It’s kinda hard to ‘brainwash’ people when most people don’t think your information is real.

We should take a look in contrast, at what % of Chinese state media coverage is favorable towards America/Western countries (I’m willing to bet, most of it is negative as well) – and what % of Chinese believe their media (I’m also willing to bet, most Chinese believe their own media at least at a higher percentage that Americans believe theirs).

In fact you’ll find that most American media pits Americans.. against each other! Democrats vs Republicans. Liberals vs Conservatives. Trump supporters vs anti-Trump supporters. Far right vs Anti-fascist. Red states vs blue states.

I cannot say for all Western media, but I assume that Canadian, Australian, British, French news etc are in general slightly less negative towards China than America is, but I will say one thing which is that the purpose of the media is to essentially control the people – but the media needs to gain the trust of the people first. If it cannot, then it has no purpose anymore.

There’s a few corollaries I would like to make too:

  1. Western media is not just biased against China, it’s also biased against North Korea, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Islam states etc i.e it has an agenda which is to form opinions in peoples minds to create division between people and countries
  2. Media can only be effective if people trust the media. Right now that is not the case in America.
  3. Most American media right now is much too concerned with pitting Americans against each other rather than trying to pit Americans against China. In fact I would go so far as to say in today’s partisan climate, an American is more likely to support China’s government than they are supporting the opposing Democrat/Republican party. That’s how divided America is right now. Heck a lot of Trump supporters warmed up to Kim Jong Un and Vladmir Putin – effectively because Trump tweeted that they were nice people!
  4. Can’t generalize a group of people who span hundreds of racial groups, ethnicities, backgrounds, and dozens of governments into one group “Westerners”. I’m a Westerner. So is the Hispanic guy who works as a car mechanic in Texas. So is the single mother of three working 3 jobs a day in New Jersey. So is the Chinese-American adopted girl who got raised in Los Angeles. Or the Businessman from Paris. Or the Security Guard from England. Or the Zookeeper in Australia. they are all Westerners. We are all very different. There’s no way we’d be able to agree on anything together including hating on a single country because the media said so.

Political Polarization in the American Public

The Disunited States: How partisan politics is polarising the US

Poll: America’s partisan divisions are wider than ever

^ some additional info – Americans are too busy fighting each other to be united in anything including hating on China. I also suspect that there is some narrative going on in China as well to pit Chinese against Western countries/America – again because there is a political agenda at play here. The more nationalistic Chinese get the more likely they are to shun foreign products/services, buy domestic products and use domestic services therefore boosting the overall economy. Every nation has its own agenda.

Categories
Politics

What are the advantages of strict censorship like they have in China?

The advantage is that you keep the (majority) of the population brainwashed to support your policies. if Chinese people can’t interact with foreigners, can’t go to foreign websites, only consume Chinese media (which of course, they believe is totally unbiased all the while screaming that Western media is biased), and everything is controlled by state media, then its no wonder that Chinese people all think alike.

How many mainland Chinese people do you meet that think Taiwan is independent? That have the ability to criticize their own country/government? That think outside the box? That knows what self-deprecation is? Probably none. On the other hand, you’ll meet lots of Japanese/Korean/Westerners that are more than likely to criticize their country and government. Because once you censor everything online and control the state media, it becomes a police state and you lack the ability to think independently. You swallow up everything the government does as ‘good for the stability and harmony of the people and the nation’, even though you are giving up your freedom and rights to do so.

If a country really was ‘the greatest country, better than democratic countries / West / America etc’, they would never need to censor anything from the people, they would never fear protests or demonstrations (because if a country is great why would people protest?) and the people would willingly want to live there and not be moving or studying abroad in large numbers. Just some food for thought when a Chinese person proclaims this sort of thing.

Edit:

As expected, a Chinese robot has commented below with the typical reply. Allow me post my response to his comments below, so you can see a little bit about what I’m talking about with typical Chinese netizens.

“Since when has criticising one’s government been something that is to be boasted about? A government being criticised routinely by its very only people only proves one thing – that this government sucks.”

You miss the point here. The point is not that our government sucks, but that we have the capability to criticize it. Chinese do not. Do you really think the Chinese government (CCP) will be great and prosperous forever and until the end of time? Of course not. But you cannot protest against them, you cannot criticize them. You *must* support them. That’s a problem of lack of freedom. And just like a robot, you respond with the typical “Chinese government has raised billions out of poverty blah blah” so is the Chinese government perfect? is there NOTHING you don’t like about the CCP? Tell me. There must be something. Let me guess -” mass censorship is ok because it’s for the harmony and stability of the country.” “If we uncensor sex and violence everyone will turn into violent criminals”

“And besides, I don’t understand why on Earth you yourself as a Chinese can’t get the slightest sense of respecting the authority”

I respect authority – when authority deserves respect.

“Every day people like you who are brainwashed by Western capitalistic democracy try everything they can to reproach their government”

Again, with this “brainwashing” argument. How are we brainwashed? I’ve traveled to over 20 countries before. I rarely read the Western media news. Most Americans don’t even trust their own news media, they think fake news is a major problem. All of my opinions come from my own experience traveling the world. So tell me, why do you think I’m brainwashed? It’s not like I haven’t been to China before. I have been to China several times already. Shanghai, Beijing, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanjing etc. It’s not like everything from China comes from what Western media says like you assume.

“if a government can’t manage to let its people shut their mouths up willingly, again the government sucks.”

People only protest if they dislike something about the government. I’m from Canada. Nobody is on the street protesting Justin Trudeau right now because although he’s not perfect, he’s not doing terrible either. If we decide we don’t like him, then he can be replaced. This is democracy and freedom at work. In China – you *have* to support the government no matter what – you have no choice.

“While over 80% of Chinese have absolute trust in our great government, you guys just elect awful people like Trump and Johnson as your national leader and practise “freedom of speech” to throw criticism and dissatisfaction towards the government. “

Not every leader we elect has been awful. Obama did a pretty good job, actually. So did Jean Chretien and Bill Clinton.

“If my government raised hundreds of millions of people from poverty, increased literacy rate in a country with 1.4 billion population from a pitiful negligible number to 96%, and developed the economy from a third-world nation to the second largest economy in only 40 years, while all your government cares is to receive criticisms fron citizens, then your government for sure hopelessly sucks.”

Keep bragging about that economy of yours – can the Chinese government keep going? I don’t think so. There’s already lots of signs of the economy slowing down. And this is just basic economic principles at work here. The more developed a country gets – the slower the economic growth will be. The CCP has a lot of work on their hands just to keep the growth rate constant. Look at South Korea and Japan in the 60s – they were just as fast as China in the 2000s – but now they’ve slowed down a lot. China will eventually slow down as well – if not already.

BTW – I noticed a common deflection tactic by Chinese netizens is that they always talk about the shortfalls of the Western government instead of their own. This is just backing up my point about all Chinese people behaving and acting the same way. Almost robot-like, [response about how I am Chinese but am brainwashed by Western media], [response about American government sucks and Chinese government being way better]. I would like to see you post a different response. Show some independent thinking.

And again if you are in China right now – you have to use a VPN to use Quora because Quora is blocked. Why would the Chinese government block Quora? Because there’s people criticizing them on Quora? A government unable to accept criticism and to improve itself is a government doomed to fail. This happened in Chinese history many times already – the stories of Emperors who couldn’t accept any criticism, and kept telling himself he was the greatest – their presumption is their downfall.

“I see no reason why the CPC is not the authority that deserves the most respect in human history.”

How about the famine that wiped out millions of people during the Great Leap Forward? the Cultural Revolution? I don’t know how you can say the CCP deserves the most respect in human history when so many lives have been needlessly lost and the needless destruction of Chinese culture. Try telling that to my parents face – who couldn’t even go to school during the Cultural Revolution because they were all shut down – that the CCP deserves the most respect in history. What a joke. Yes it’s admirable that they lifted so many people from poverty but they did it at a very heavy cost. And it’s not like other countries didn’t do it. the Industrial Revolution did the same thing to create a gigantic middle class for the UK and US, and Korea and Japan both went from countries completely destroyed by war to first world developed countries in less than 30 years. It’s not like the CCP did something that other countries didn’t do before, having any kind of modernized capitalist government would have achieved the same results. Notice that CCP didn’t actually raise many people out of poverty until after they switched to a market economy.

“Common sense would tell us that the less educated a person is, the more vulnerable he will be under influence of misleading information or anti-social sentiment. “

Common sense from a non-biased view, would also tell us that less educated people should benefit from receiving more education. Quora is a place of education. You see it as a place of misinformation and anti-China groups? Well take a look at most of the China-related questions on Quora. The top-voted answers are all pro-Chinese. For example take a look at Why is western media so hostile towards China? What are some common misconceptions about China? What is wrong with a lot of western media coverage of China? in particular one of the most popular writers of the China topic Paul Denlinger you can read his answers – they are mostly all praising China. So much for Quora being filled with anti-Chinese groups eh? If anything, there’s misinformation that’s anti-Western, not anti-China. Some of these answers generalize Western media and Westerners way too much.