Blue is Me

Tag: legend

  • Rick Barry is probably the most underrated SF ever

    Why is Rick Barry seemingly so forgotten by modern NBA fans and analysts?

    Whenever a list of the top SFs all time get mentioned, inevitably there’s Lebron and Bird, Dr J, KD and Pippen get mentioned, and sometimes Elgin Baylor, James Worthy, Dominique Wilkins and even Paul Pierce get thrown in.
    ..but what about Rick Barry?
     
    For people who don’t know how much of a statistical beast Rick was, his playoff stats were monstrous:
     
    1967 playoffs – 34.7 PPG / 7.5 RPG / 3.9 APG
    1970 playoffs – 40.1 PPG / 10.0 RPG / 3.3 APG
    1971 playoffs – 33.7 PPG / 11.7 RPG / 4.0 APG
    1972 playoffs – 30.8 PPG / 6.5 RPG / 3.8 APG
    1975 playoffs – 28.2 PPG / 5.5 RPG / 6.1 APG
    1976 playoffs – 24.0 PPG / 6.5 RPG / 6.5 APG
    1977 playoffs – 28.4 PPG / 5.9 RPG / 4.7 APG
     
    He’s one of only 4 players to ever win a ring without another all star on his team (the others are Ben Wallace, Hakeem Olajuwon and Dirk Nowitzki)
     
    He’s the only player to ever lead the NCAA, ABA AND NBA in scoring
     
    He was the first SF that you could call a ‘point forward’ due to his passing ability
     
    He had the highest FT% in history at the time he retired
     
    “He was Larry Bird before Larry Bird” is what many fans who watched him play said about him
     
    He has the highest scoring Finals Average of all time at 36 PPG, even beating out Michael Jordan’s 33 PPG
     
    He has over 25k career points if you include his ABA stats
    (which the NBA should and is baffling that they don’t because you know, they merged so ABA history should be part of NBA history)
     
    He had “mamba mentality” way before Jordan/Kobe made it popular; He would never shy away from shooting a shot, he was psychologically competitive and he was tough on his teammates. The problem was, back in the 1970s this type of mentality was widely disliked and hence he was probably robbed of a few MVPs (which were voted on by players back then). Now, ironically we praise players with this kind of mentality.
     
    Head to Head matchups versus other SF greats of the time:
     
    Rick Barry vs Elgin Baylor
    Barry – 28.2 / 9.8 / 3.1 / 44% FG%
    Baylor – 19.4 / 9.5 / 2.4 / 42% FG%
     
    Rick Barry vs Connie Hawkins
    Barry – 23.4 / 6.9 / 5.7 / 45% FG%
    Hawkins – 15.0 / 7.1 / 4.7 / 50% FG%
     
    Rick Barry vs Billy Cunningham
    Barry – 29.5 / 7.4 / 3.2 / 44% FG%
    Cunningham – 16.5 / 9.6 / 3.5 / 44% FG%
     
    Rick Barry vs Gus Johnson
    Barry – 32.1 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
    Gus – 19.4 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
     
    Rick Barry vs Roger Brown
    Barry – 28.5 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups Brown – 21.4 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
     
    Rick Barry vs Julius Erving
    Barry – 24.7 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
    Dr J – 26.6 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
     
    Rick Barry vs John Havlicek
    Barry – 28.1 / 8.4 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups Hondo – 22 / 5.7 / cant find other stats on their h2h matchups
     
    Rick Barry vs Chet Walker
    Barry – 27.2 / 8.1 / 3.7 / 45% FG%
    Chet – 20.1 / 6.5 / 2.8 / 49% FG%
     
    So as you can see, Barry basically destroyed every other SF of his era – the only exception being Dr J (who was younger than Barry)
     
    How could a player so dominant at his position be routinely left out in conversations? SLAM magazine left him out of their all time SF mount rushmore candidates – but inexplicably put Carmelo Anthony and Paul Pierce there. ESPN left him out of their all time Warriors starting lineup, instead putting in Draymond Green over him. TNT’s 2011 All-Star Fantasy Draft where 6 analysts drafted 10 players each – Barry was not picked.
     
    It’s inexplicable to me that Rick Barry is mostly forgotten and even if he is remembered, mostly remembered for his granny style free throw shot and him being a racist commentator. When I went to watch the Warriors games, I was the only one wearing a Rick Barry jersey. Sometimes I even saw Mullin jerseys – but never Barry jerseys (or Thurmond jerseys for that matter). And that’s kind of sad because not only should his dominance as a player be remembered, but he’s one of the few players back then who would thrive in today’s game with his ultra competitiveness, his point forward skills, his complete game (post, interior, perimeter) and his long range shooting.
    Thoughts? I think he’s one of my top 2 most underrated players of all time along with Artis Gilmore.
     

  • Why do so many casual NBA fans discredit Wilt Chamberlain because he played in a “weak” era?

    Honestly, I think it’s part ignorance and part denial.

    First of all, since Wilt played in the 1960s and he’s no longer around to defend himself, and most of the people who watched him play are getting too old themselves, it’s very easy for the typical Gen Z / Millenial fan to point out that:

    1. Wilt played in an 8 team league
    2. Wilt’s numbers are inflated
    3. Wilt played against short white plumbers
    4. Bill Russell dominated him
    5. Shaq or whoever else would have owned that era

    And all of these have a counterargument:

    1. An 8 team league would actually be more competitive, not less since more talent is concentrated in fewer teams
    2. Wilt’s numbers are not duplicated by anyone else of his era
    3. You can do some research and see that Wilt played against a guy 6′9 or taller at his position on every team, and that the average height back then was only 1″ shorter
    4. Bill Russell had a better team than Wilt did most of the time
    5. Time travel shenanigans don’t make any sense; today’s athletes benefit from the athletes that came before them. Barry Bonds would probably dominate in Babe Ruth’s era. Mike Tyson would have dominated in Muhammed Ali’s era. Wayne Gretzky would have dominated in Gordie Howe’s era. Any person with a college education today would have dominated Isaac Newton’s era. It doesn’t make any sense, and only for basketball do we discredit the older greats.

    So I think it’s just ignorance for that part.

    For the second part, I think it’s also denial. People see Wilt’s numbers and roll their eyes. They ignore it because Wilt’s numbers are too insane. They are video game numbers. How could someone have actually put up those numbers? That can’t be. That means that Wilt would be numbers-wise better than any other player in NBA history by a wide margin including Michael Jordan and Lebron James. The greatest of all time can’t be a guy that played 50 years ago. That’s impossible and not fun to think about. No, the greatest of all time has to be someone who played relatively recently so we can see all his footage and debate with other people who have seen him play. Wilt probably just got his numbers because everyone else sucked back then.

    And thus, that’s why Wilt Chamberlain will always be IMO underrated because he was TOO dominant for his era to the point of it being too unbelievable. ESPN even left him out of their top 5 list. It’s really sad.

  • What is Kobe Bryant‘s place in basketball history?

    Can’t believe Kobe has died, brain is still processing this.

    As many people may know I wasn’t a Kobe fan and I considered him the most overrated player of all time.

    That said Kobe was still one of the greatest players in NBA history, a top 10 player all time, the second greatest SG all time without a doubt.

    Kobe has the unique status amongst basketball players of being much bigger than their sport. I think Tim Duncan is probably the most contrasting example with Kobe. Quiet dude, had just a great a basketball career/resume, yet Kobe is probably 10x as famous as Duncan. Kobe was like Michael Jackson, or his idol Michael Jordan, or Tiger Woods. Someone so famous that they transcended what they did.

    Kobe was famous for his legendary work ethic, his dedication to his craft, and his “mamba mentality”. He inspired millions around the world in a way that few other basketball players could. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such an outpouring of grief for an athlete’s death in my lifetime. Shaq, Tmac and West all broke down crying on TV. Past legends like Kareem, Magic, Russell, Isiah, Dr J, Rick Barry all tweeted their condolences. Late night show hosts offered a tribute. Presidents Trump and Obama tweeted about it. Modern NBA greats like Lebron, CP3, Wade, Melo, KD, Curry, Iverson, Kawhi, Pierce, Kidd, Nash etc all had something to say about Kobe. It was unlike everything I had ever seen. Kobe touched almost everyone. That was his greatness.

    Although I don’t rank Kobe as highly as others on my all time list, I cannot deny that Kobe was the second greatest ambassador for basketball in its history after his idol MJ, as he was probably the second most famous basketball player in the world.

    RIP Kobe Bryant. You will be remembered as one of the all time greats, by anybody.

  • Ignoring career performance, who at their peak was the best NBA basketball player ever?

    By peak do you mean prime? Who had the best primes?

    I have a few suggestions, can’t pick just one so I’ll list them out:

    These are some players with great primes:

    1952–1960 Bob Cousy

    1957–1965 Bill Russell

    1956–1964 Bob Pettit

    1960–1968 Wilt Chamberlain (by the numbers he would be the GOAT here)

    1961–1970 Oscar Robertson

    1962–1972 Jerry West

    1967–1972 Connie Hawkins

    1959–1965 Elgin Baylor

    1967–1974 John Havlicek

    1969–1977 Elvin Hayes

    1969–1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    1966–1975 Rick Barry

    1977–1978 Bill Walton (yes this short 2 year prime was one of the greatest i’ve seen)

    1972–1981 Julius Erving

    1973–1978 Pete Maravich

    1976–1981 David Thompson

    1978–1983 George Gervin

    1979–1985 Moses Malone

    1983–1987 Isiah Thomas

    1984–1985 Bernard King

    1980–1988 Larry Bird

    1983–1991 Magic Johnson

    1986–1996 Hakeem Olajuwon

    1987–1998 Michael Jordan

    1987–1996 Charles Barkley

    1988–1997 John Stockton

    1988–1998 Karl Malone

    1990–1996 David Robinson

    1996–2000 Grant Hill

    1994–2003 Shaq

    1999–2007 Allen Iverson

    1998–2007 Tim Duncan

    1999–2007 Kevin Garnett

    2001–2007 Tracy McGrady

    2002–2011 Dirk Nowitzki

    2001–2013 Kobe Bryant

    2005–2011 Dwayne Wade

    2008–2014 Dwight Howard

    2008–2016 Chris Paul

    2005–2020 Lebron James (seriously one of the longest primes ever!)

    2009–2019 Kevin Durant

    2014–2019 Stephen Curry

    2015–2019 Russell Westbrook

    2013–2020 James Harden

    Out of these primes I think the top 10 best primes were:

    1. 1960–1968 Wilt Chamberlain
    2. 1987–1998 Michael Jordan
    3. 2005–2020 Lebron James
    4. 1969–1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    5. 1980–1998 Larry Bird
    6. 1994–2003 Shaq
    7. 1961–1970 Oscar Robertson
    8. 1959–1965 Elgin Baylor
    9. 1966–1975 Rick Barry
    10. 1979–1985 Moses Malone

  • If a completely average modern NBA player were to play 50 years ago, would he be an elite player in that time?

    Probably, but I hate comparing eras because there’s a few problems with it:

    1. Time travel does not exist
    2. A modern player is only a modern player because of the basketball rules, training and advances that developed as a result of the older players who 50 years ago pioneered the standard. It would be a complete paradox for that player to play with those older players.
    3. Conversely, a player from that time transported into today’s time would have all the benefits of modern medicine and training as well.

    for these reasons, this is why greatness is always measured based on their own era, not across eras. Bill Russell, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain dominated their eras and thats what matters.

    It doesn’t make sense to compare them to today’s players in hypothetical time travel machinations, and thats why I dislike that modern NBA fans put down those older players because of it. It’s like saying ‘if an average scientist from today went to Isaac Newton’s era, he’d be the smartest person alive’ it just doesn’t make any sense.

  • What should be the top 3-5 criteria that an NBA player should meet to be considered as a plausible candidate for GOAT (greatest Of All Time) by you?

    1. Championships. This is the main reason why Bill Russell is in the GOAT convo and a big reason why Jordan and Kareem is in it as well.
    2. Stats This is the main reason why Wilt Chamberlain is in the GOAT convo, and a big reason why Jordan (#1 in PPG), Kareem (#1 in total points) and Lebron (top 10 in points and assists) is in it as well.
    3. Awards MVPs, scoring titles, rebounding titles, assist titles, Finals MVPs, All-NBA, All-Defensive, unlike championships are individual awards and all count when talking about the GOAT convo. Russell/Wilt/Jordan/Lebron/Kareem all have plenty in this category.

    The top 5 GOAT candidates for me are: Jordan (obviously), Wilt, Kareem, Lebron, Russell

    here are why some other great players are usually not in the GOAT convo:

    Larry Bird – has the championships and awards but stats are below the top 5 (doesnt lead in any category)

    Magic Johnson – has the championships and awards, and has the stats (top 5 in assists, highest APG). Magic is in the GOAT convo by alot of people and was in my top 5 before Lebron won his 3rd championship in 2016.

    Kobe Bryant – has the championships, but does not do better than Jordan in anything (except total points where he is ahead by only one spot), and also lacks the awards compared to top 5.

    Tim Duncan – has the championships and awards and top 10 in rebounds but stats are lacking compared to top 5.

    Hakeem Olajuwon – has the stats, top 10 in blocks and steals, but lacks in championships and awards compared to top 5.

    Bob Cousy – has the championships, but lacks in awards and stats compared to top 5.

    Shaq – has the championships, top 10 in points but awards/stats are below the top 5

    Dr J – has the championships and awards but stats are below the top 5 (doesnt lead any category)

    Jerry West – has the stats but lacks the awards and championships (no MVP, only 1 ring)

    Oscar Robertson – has the stats but lacks the awards and championships (1 mvp, 1 ring)