Tag: john havlicek

  • Who was the best player between John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry?

    You have three all time small forwards playing around the same era. Baylor was the earliest but his career overlaps a bit with the other two.

    Let’s go category by category as all three of these players can do a bit of everything on the court:

    Scoring – this one is tough – it’s either Baylor or Barry both of them were monster scorers in their prime. Baylor has the third highest PPG all time at 27.4 PPG and peaked at 38 PPG in 1962. Barry’s overall career PPG is lower at 25 PPG but peaks almost as high at 36 PPG in 1967. Baylor’s career high is 71 PTS and STILL holds the record for most points in a Finals at 61 PTS. Barry though, holds the highest Finals scoring average of all time at 36 PPG – and averaged 41 PPG vs Wilt’s 76ers in the 1967 Finals. It’s super close between Baylor and Barry and you could pick either one and get one of the best scoring forwards of all time.

    Rebounding – definitely Baylor. Baylor averaged 13.5 RPG as a 6′5 forward. That’s pretty insane and shows how athletic he was. He peaked at 18 RPG in 1962. While Barry was a very good rebounder in his early years before his knee injuries, he never really matched Baylor and Havlicek is a fine rebounder for his position too but ranks third here.

    Passing – very close between Barry and Havlicek. Both Barry and Havlicek could be considered prototype point forwards. Barry had a few seasons averaging 6+ APG and Havlicek had a few seasons averaging 7+ APG. At their peaks, Havlicek *might* have the slight edge here but Barry was consistently a great passer after his knee injuries forced him to be more of a perimeter player. Super close and both had great competing teams in the 1970s. You could pick either one and get one of the best passing forwards ever. Baylor was also a pretty decent passer, but he was a level below these two.

    Defense – definitely Havlicek. Havlicek was a 8x All-Defensive player. “Havlicek steals the ball!’ is ingrained in the minds of many old school basketball fans. Havlicek was similar to Pippen in his day, he was a very smart help defender and great at perimeter defense. Barry and Baylor weren’t known for their defense.

    Awards – Baylor doesn’t have a championship. Barry has one championship and Finals MVP. Havlicek has 8 championships and a Finals MVP. I think it’s pretty clear here that Havlicek has the advantage when it comes to awards. Havlicek was 8–0 in the Finals. In 3 of his championships, he was a top 2 player on the team. Fun fact is if Jerry West had not gotten the Finals MVP in 1969 and the FMVP went to a player on the winning team instead – it would have gone to Havlicek as Russell although still very valuable was on the decline in his last season. Havlicek was far and away the best offensive player on the Celtics that season.

    So overall I’ll have to rank them as follows – Havlicek (top 20 player, great passer, great defender, 8 rings), Barry (top 25 player, great scorer, great passer), Baylor (top 25 player, great scorer, great rebounder) – in that order.

  • Who do you think was the better player in their prime, Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

    John Havlicek.

    It honestly irks me that modern fans all rank Pippen ahead of Hondo.

    Hondo was the better scorer, had a FINALS MVP, has 2 more rings, 6 more All-NBA teams, almost as many All-Def teams, and just as good of a rebounder and passer as Pippen.

    Little known fact: Hondo would have probably won the Finals MVP in 1969 if it didn’t go to Jerry West on the losing team. Russell was still very valuable defensively, but he was close to retirement and on the way out, whereas Hondo carried the team offensively averaging 28/11/4 that series vs the Lakers.

    In 1971, Havlicek averaged a ridiculous 29 PPG, 9 RPG, 7.5 APG. That’s Lebron numbers. Pippen’s best season in 1994 was 22 PPG, 9 RPG, 5.6 APG. That’s not nearly as impressive.

    I actually made a video about this comparison before.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-0PUgMWNQ

    Havlicek was the better player, both stats wise and career wise. Even defensively Pippen might have the edge but not by a lot since Hondo was really good defensively too.

    Havlicek was also a better leader; for half of his career he was co-captain of the team along with Dave Cowens in the 1970s and led them to two championships. He has 6 rings with Bill Russell and 2 without. Pippen’s lone season without Jordan in 1994, lost in the 2nd round and that’s all she wrote.

    It’s another case of disrespecting the older players that Pippen always goes before Hondo on all time lists.

  • Is the just-deceased John Havlicek one of the 25 best NBA players ever?

    Absolutely. John Havlicek is one of the most underrated players I think. Here are some facts about him:

    -stats: 21/6/5 (one of the most well rounded players ever and a point forward before it existed)
    -8x champion and 8–0 in the Finals (yes a better record than Jordan!)
    -Finals MVP
    -13x All star
    -11x All-NBA
    -8x All-Defensive

    -He was the best two way forward before Scottie Pippen and Kawhi Leonard came on the scene.

    -He was one of the most clutch players ever. “Havlicek steals the ball!” is one of the most memorable moments in NBA Finals history

    -A consummate teammate and team player, never putting his ego above anyone else’s

    -part of two completely different Celtics teams.. the Russell driven team of the 60s and the Cowens driven team of the 70s.

    -one of the five best white players in NBA history

    -one of the top 7 small forwards in NBA history

    -one of the three best Celtics ever

    -probably the greatest sixth man in NBA history (sorry Manu and McHale)

    -He’s the 18th greatest player of all time to me, right behind Durant and ahead of Pettit