Tag: george mcginnis

  • Who was better, Connie Hawkins or George McGinnis?

    This is a very interesting question. Both players played their primes in the ABA and then had a few good seasons in the NBA before declining. Both retired relatively early and their best days were finished, their athleticism robbed by age 30.

    I would say they are fairly close. Both players are very underrated because the NBA does not acknowledge their ABA achievements.

    Scoring: About the same. Both players in their primes averaged about 25 – 30 PPG. Hawkins was a prototype Dr J with his acrobatic dunks and layups while McGinnis often drove in much like early Lebron but also had a unique one handed jump shot from the midrange. Both were athletic freaks of nature in their primes.

    Rebounding: Also pretty close. McGinnis has the higher career average of 11 RPG but Hawkins in his prime can also easily get 11–13 RPG as well. McGinnis peaks at even higher levels averaging 14–16 RPG in his prime. McGinnis was possibly even more athletic so it might go to him.

    Passing: also dead even. Both were great passers from the post averaging 4–5 APG in their primes and McGinnis could even bring the ball up like a proto Lebron in his prime functioning as the main ball handler but that’s also why he got a lot of turnovers because he wasn’t quite a gifted a passer like Lebron. I would say both played a similar role to Giannis in that they were very good passers for their size and position but I would stop short of saying that they were as good as a typical guard when bringing the ball up the court.

    Awards: tough call. Both won rings, an MVP and Finals MVP in the ABA. McGinnis has one more ring than Hawkins though. Hawkins best year in the NBA was his rookie year where he took the Wilt/West/Baylor Lakers to 7 games with his only supporting teammate being Gail Goodrich. He was All-NBA 1st team that season. McGinnis was also All-NBA 1st team his rookie season in the NBA and helped lead the 76ers to the Finals when Dr J arrived on the team.

    So prime vs prime, it’s close, both players were MVP level and won championships, while giving you 25/11/4 a night. If I had to pick I think McGinnis would be more interesting to have as a second or third option on a team given that he was proven to win alongside MVP players like Mel Daniels on his team and Dr J. Hawkins I just don’t know because he didn’t have quite a good supporting cast in the NBA and he played at a weaker time in the ABA compared to McGinnis. The ABA was a fledgling league when Hawkins played there he was their first major superstar, whereas McGinnis arrived when the ABA had much more talent and was also able to win more championships there. So I might take George McGinnis by a tiny hair. I know this may be a bit surprising since Bill Simmons in his book of basketball had Connie Hawkins in his pyramid but not McGinnis, but I think he left out virtually all the ABA Pacers guys anyways (Mel Daniels, Roger Brown also got left out) and didn’t give McGinnis a fair shake at all.

  • In rankings of the greatest players for each franchise, why is Dr J considered the Net’s best player but not Mel Daniels for the Pacers?

    Whenever people make these lists of ‘greatest players for each franchise’, Dr J is inevitably considered (either him or Jason Kidd) as the best Nets player.

    (there are many articles that have Dr J for the Nets but here’s some examples):

    https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/01/11/ranking-the-greatest-player-of-all-time-from-every-nba-franchise/

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1396605-the-single-greatest-player-for-each-nba-franchise

    In other rankings, Jason Kidd comes out as the best Nets player, and I don’t have a problem with those rankings because at least they are being consistent.

    However with the articles that have Dr J ranked as the best Nets player, they are including ABA achievements to make that decision since Dr J only played for the Nets in the ABA, not the NBA.

    And if they are, then Dr J is almost certainly the Net’s best player with a Nets resume of 3x MVP, 2x Champion, 2x Finals (playoffs) MVP, 4x All ABA, 4x All-star, 3x scoring champion.

    Yet inevitably for the Pacers, Reggie Miller is always considered their best player. I understand that Reggie Miller is a 5x all star, 3x all-nba, an all time great shooter and all time clutch player and played for the franchise 18 seasons.

    But accolades seem to matter more than longevity for the franchise, else Dr J or Jason Kidd would not be considered the best Nets player – it would be Buck Williams.

    Reggie Miller unfortunately never won a championship for the Pacers, and only went to 1 Finals in his career.

    Since Dr J’s Nets career comes from the ABA, we are allowed to consider the Pacer’s ABA players as well. There are three Pacers players in ABA history who could be considered more worthy than Reggie Miller – Mel Daniels, Roger Brown, and George McGinnis.

    -Mel Daniels is a 7x All Star, 5x All-ABA, 2x MVP, 3x Rebounding leader and 3x Champion for the Pacers

    -Roger Brown is 4x All Star, 3x All-ABA, 1x Finals (playoffs) MVP and 3x Champion for the Pacers

    -George McGinnis is a 3x All Star, 3x All-ABA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals (playoffs) MVP and 2x Champion for the Pacers

    All of these guys have better Pacers resumes than Reggie Miller – they won championships for the franchise and MVP or Finals MVP (or both) for the franchise. Personally I feel Mel Daniels has the strongest case out of these three guys.

    If we’re going to count ABA awards and stats then Mel Daniels should definitely be considered the greatest Pacers player ever, over Reggie Miller.

    Why there is this inconsistency with ranking all time greats? even NBA 2K left out Roger Brown and Mel Daniels (and other ABA Pacer greats like Freddie Lewis and Bob Netolicky) off of their all time team, which is a travesty.

  • ABA players are underrated, top 10 underrated basketball players

    Another basketball post! yay! In this post I want to talk about just how underrated ABA players.

    Edit: I made a video about the top 10 underrated players here:
    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z9tVTAuHHA

    For those of you who don’t know, the American Basketball Association or ABA, was founded as an alternative league to the NBA and at that time alot of players who felt that the NBA wasn’t paying them enough or too traditional took to the ABA which had a lot of modern rules like the 3 point range, a colored ball, etc

    However, the ABA eventually merged with the NBA in 1976, but the NBA refuses to merge ABA player’s career records with the NBA, which is a disservice to former ABA players who later went to the NBA. As a result, several former great ABA players are underrated by the public both because ABA games were not readily televised back in the day, and because their career totals are not fully accounted for in the NBA.

    Some of these great players include:

    1. Mel Daniels

    Mel Daniels
    Mel Daniels

    Has anyone ever heard of Mel Daniels? Well before I looked him up I haven’t. Probably the most underrated ABA player ever. He was a 6’9 Center that played for the Indiana Pacers, his awards include:
    7 time ABA All Star
    3 time ABA champion
    2 time ABA MVP
    1 time ABA all star game MVP
    4 time All ABA first team
    ABA Rookie of the Year
    and his career averages: 18.4ppg/14.9rpg/1.8apg

    Now tell me how someone like that could be forgotten? A 3 time champion and 2 time MVP and averaged 15 rebounds a game?? My awards based ranking places him as the 30th best player of all time (!!), right between Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Arizin.

    2. Artis Gilmore

    Artis Gilmore
    Artis Gilmore

    Along with Julius Erving, probably the greatest ABA player of all time. And yet he wasn’t elected to the Hall of Fame until 2011. How is this possible? His awards:
    11 time ABA/NBA All Star
    3 time ABA champion
    1 time ABA Finals MVP
    1 time ABA MVP
    1 time ABA all star game MVP
    5 time All ABA first team
    ABA Rookie of the Year
    and averaged.. 18.8ppg/12.3rpg/2.4bpg

    My awards based ranking places him as the 36th best player of all time (!!), right between Isiah Thomas and Dwight Howard. This guy should be a top 10 center of all time, but its always left out of conversations.

    3. George McGinnis

    George McGinnis
    George McGinnis

    He was one of the most important players in the ABA along with Julius Erving, yet he isn’t even in the Hall of Fame yet! How is that possible? His awards:

    6 time ABA/NBA All Star
    2 time ABA champion
    1 time ABA MVP
    3 time All ABA first team
    and averaged.. 20.2ppg/11.0rpg/3.7apg

    How can a former MVP and 2 time champion who averaged 20/11 be forgotten?? My awards based ranking places him as the 39th best player of all time, right between John Stockton and Willis Reed.

    4. Rick Barry

    Rick Barry
    Rick Barry

    Rick Barry does get acknowledge as one of the great small forwards, but I think not enough as he deserves. Look at his awards and stats:

    12 time ABA/NBA All Star
    2 time ABA/NBA champion
    1 time NBA Finals MVP
    9 time All ABA/NBA First Team
    NBA All Star game MVP
    NBA Rookie of the Year
    1 time NBA scoring champion
    and averaged.. 24.8ppg/6.7rpg/4.9apg

    Rick Barry doesn’t get the credit he deserves. His stats and awards using my ranking makes him the 19th best player of all time, right between Karl Malone and Elgin Baylor. He has better stats than Kobe Bryant. He averaged 27 points a game in the playoffs. He lead the ABA AND NBA in scoring. He lead the Golden State Warriors to their only championship in 1975 almost by himself. He is one of the greatest players of all time, period, yet gets left off the all time nba fantasy draft. He is hardly ever mentioned by modern players. Most players place Scottie Pippen over him. Why??

    5. Connie Hawkins

    Connie Hawkins
    Connie Hawkins

    Connie Hawkins was basically another Julius Erving, except not remembered as much. Why not? He started kind of late in the NBA, due to the NBA banning him for a scandal that he wasn’t a part of, but his awards include:

    5 time ABA/NBA All Star
    1 time ABA Finals MVP
    1 time ABA MVP
    3 time All ABA/NBA First Team
    and averaged.. 18.7ppg/8.8rpg/4.1apg

    My awards based ranking places him as the 41th best player of all time, right between Willis Reed and Chris Paul. Again, no one talks about him or mentions him but the dude averaged 25/12 in the playoffs.

    Other forgotten former ABA players include
    6. Spencer Haywood, a former ABA MVP, averaged 20/10 yet isn’t in the hall of fame.
    7. Roger Brown, an all but forgotten ABA star that averaged 17/6/4 for his career.
    8. Billy Cunningham isn’t mentioned that much either, even though he is a former ABA MVP, 21/10 player, and one of the top 50 greatest of all time.
    9. David Thompson, a former ABA player who averaged 22/3/4, scored 73 points in a game before, and one of the greatest dunkers of all time, is often forgotten.
    10. Dan Issel, a 22/9 ABA player who helped Gilmore win his championship but isn’t mentioned amongst the great power forwards.