Blue is Me

Tag: fans

  • What are your thoughts on Bam Adebayo scoring 83 points, surpassing Kobe Bryant’s famous 81-point game?

    Definitely unexpected.

    I mean, out of all NBA players to beat Kobe’s 81 pts… Bam Adebayo??? I mean, I’ve always expected *some* player to beat it at some point, given the increased scoring and fast pace we have seen the past couple of seasons, but you would think it would be somebody like Steph Curry.. Kevin Durant.. Luka Doncic.. Nikola Jokic.. Giannis.. SGA.. you know, the usual suspects for high scoring.

    Bam Adebayo was not on my bingo card – a player who averages about 19 PPG for the season. Scoring over 83 was not as shocking to me as *Bam scoring over 83*.

    As for beating Kobe, well let’s just say there are alot of salty Kobe fanboys out there

    I mean jesus.. look at all that cope

    But what do you expect? I already been telling people Kobe fans are the worst fanbase in sports. A bunch of whiny bitchy losers who always have some excuse for Kobe and willing to jump off a bridge to defend him.

    Kobe only has 1 MVP? that’s because he was robbed and the media ‘overhated’ him for the rape trial

    Kobe shot his team out of the 2004 Finals? Well he had too much drama from the rape trial and Shaq

    Kobe blew a 3–1 lead and quit on his team in the Game 7? Well he did it to spite Phil Jackson

    Kobe averaged 15 PPG in the 2000 Finals? That’s because he was injured (for 2 games out of 6 fyi)

    Kobe missed the playoffs in the middle of his prime? he was injured!

    Kobe shot his team out of the 2008 Finals? Nah man.. INJURIES again!

    Shaq carried Kobe? Nah look at these cherry picked games from the WCF!

    Kobe beat all these 50 win teams all by himself!

    Kobe willed the 2008 Olympics team to the medal all by himself!

    Kobe carried Gasol and a bunch of scrubs to 2 rings all by himself!

    The league denied Kobe the CP3 trade because they didn’t want Kobe to keep winning!

    Kobe chased Dwight and Shaq out? Well that’s because they weren’t tough enough to play with Kobe!

    Kobe got swept by 2011 Mavs? Well that’s because he was too fatigued from carrying the Lakers to 3 Finals in a row!

    Seriously the amount of excuses and BS I’ve heard from Kobe fans is another level.. for all the hate Bron fans get online (and believe me, ANYONE defending Bron gets insulted and called a bunch of lameass childish phrases online), I’ve never heard Bron fans say oh he was robbed of MVP in 2006 cause he was like second place in voting you know? or say anything about Donovan Mitchell scoring 71 as a Cav beating Bron’s record.. or say anything about Bam scoring 83 as a Heat player (overtaking Bron’s 61). With Kobe fans though, it’s always a bunch of whining and BS.

    They say Wilt’s 100 point game doesn’t count because there was no footage of it (stupid, I know. So most of human history didn’t happen then?)

    Now they say Bam’s game doesn’t count because too many free throws (free throws are part of the game last time I checked)

    Oh Bam was stat padding you say? You really think Kobe was not a stat padder? Pretty sure at the end of the 81 point game he was padding some stats cause they didn’t need 81 to beat them at the end.

    Oh Kobe’s team was down you say? How come Kobe fans never think about WHY his teams are down in the first place. 2006 Raptors were one of the worst teams in the league. Kobe the ‘best player in the world’ was down to them why exactly? It aint Kobe’s teammates fault cause they dont even get a chance to shoot since Kobe never passes to Smush or Kwame.

    Oh they played better defense back then? Then explain to me why in 2006 literally the top 14 scorers were ALL perimeter players – Kobe, Arenas, Lebron, Iverson, Pierce, Melo, Wade etc pretty sure the 2006 season – especially the Finals – was basically watching a bunch of free throws as well

    tldr; Yes Bam’s game was shocking to me – out of all the players I would have never expected him to be the one to break Kobe’s record. And Kobe fans keep crying – at least your guy will still hold the record for most FGAs in a game with 50. He’ll forever be the biggest gunner in NBA history.

  • Which NBA player has the worst fans and why?

    Definitely Kobe Bryant.

    I’ve certainly argued with my share of NBA fans across the Youtube-verse, Twitter-space, Facebook groups, and Quora spaces, but by far the most ignorant, casual and uneducated fans I’ve had the displeasure of dealing with are Kobe fans.

    They are probably the most infuriating most brainwashed people this side of Trump supporters or mainland Chinese wumaos. To them, Kobe is a demi-god who can do no wrong, that never gets any blame and they have a mountain of excuses for him whenever he has a bad game or loses (i.e he had drama, he was injured, his teammates sucked etc), and he’s in the GOAT conversation.. just because.

    I have a lot of Kobe fan BS screenshotted as proof. Let’s go over some of them:

    Here’s a common one.. FG% and stats don’t matter (except when Kobe scores 60/70/80+ points then it matters!). Ok.. care to give any reasons why they don’t matter? Care to give examples what Kobe’s intangibles were instead of just saying it? I would imagine a guy with such intangibles wouldn’t have missed the playoffs in his prime and would have gotten past the first round without Shaq or Gasol.. just saying.

    They only say “triple double nonsense” because Kobe wasn’t good at getting triple doubles. They say ‘stats don’t matter’ but then hype up all the games where Kobe scored a lot of points. Contradiction anyone?

    Him having the same moves as Jordan must mean he’s just as good as Jordan right?

    Do you know any other player where they hype up something like this 12 years later? He gets a ball waved in front of his face. Whoopity doo. And it still gets remembered. This is what I mean when I say Kobe is the most overhyped superstar ever. If Kobe took a shit in a porta potty it would get anniversaries 20 years later right?

    This is another one that gets anniversaries. Him making 2 free throws on a torn achilles. First of all Kobe is an 84% FT% shooter so making 2 free throws isn’t out of the ordinary for him and secondly making free throws doesn’t require much movement of your heel. If he was dunking on a torn achilles that’s a different story. It’s not that special as people think.

    John Havlicek has more points than Bird, more rings than Jordan, more Finals MVPs than Karl Malone, more All-Def teams than Dwight, more All-NBA selections than Curry, why isn’t he top 10 all time?

    You will see Kobe fans use quotes a lot. See, because they have a lack of statistical evidence (except for all the ‘scoring explosions’ in the regular season) and a lack of awards (except for rings) they bring up a bunch of quotes, the 5 rings and the reg season scoring numbers up a lot. That’s all they have.

    All inaccurate or misleading. Jordan was choosing based on who would beat him 1v1, not in a 5v5 game and he only said that because he said Kobe stole all his moves. Larry Bird only picked Kobe to play with and said Kobe was a winner, because this is from a 2012 interview before Lebron won any rings. Also in that same interview Bird said that Lebron was the most dominant player in the league by far, but they completely omit that part and focus on the part where he picked Kobe. Magic, Shaq, Wade etc may have picked Kobe over Lebron at various points in the past but have since changed their minds to Lebron. You can’t take a quote from a player in 2012 and then say oh that means Kobe is better than Lebron NOW after Lebron has won 4 rings since then. An example of how Kobe fans warp the facts.

    Spoken like a true casual. In what world is Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Trevor Ariza the ‘worst’ team in the NBA?

    Kobe fans so desperate to fit him in the GOAT convo. Look, you can’t be the GOAT of your sport if there is a player (Jordan) that is strictly superior in every way at your position. It just doesn’t make sense.

    Not only is this picture photoshopped, but Kobe has a losing record vs Lebron head to head. Lebron averages 28/8/7 on 48% shooting and is 16–6 vs Kobe head to head. Kobe averages 24/5/5 on 44% shooting in those matchups. Kobe fans really like to make stuff up eh?

    Wow so Kobe dropped 55 on old Jordan. What an accomplishment. What about Allan Houston dropping 53 on Kobe that same season? Is Houston better than Kobe then? David Robinson scored 71 points in a game, Jordan didn’t. Robinson is better? Karl Malone scored more points than Kobe and Jordan so is he better?

    A lie. I see this from Kobe fans all the time. Kobe never averaged 40 PPG in any playoffs. His playoff average high was 33 PPG in 2007. Nor did Kobe ever average 40 PPG in any playoff series. It’s just more made up BS that’s all.

    This might be one of the worst posts I’ve ever seen. All delusional BS here.
    First of all Kobe played half of his career post hand checking rules changes.
    Secondly, why the hell is his rape case and org instability made into some sort of positive for Kobe? Kobe caused those things himself.
    Thirdly, Kobe most certainly did NOT win 2 rings on his own – in fact he couldn’t even get out of the first round until Lakers traded for Gasol.
    Fourthly, I hate how Kobe fans reward him for being inefficient saying it’s because he took ‘tough shots’ here’s an idea – how about not taking any tough shots and being more efficient? If I shot 10% in a pickup game I can just say ‘oh I took alot of tough shots, not my fault’ and get praised for it?
    Fifthly, Kobe never had scoring explosions in the playoffs. There’s a reason for that.. it’s because the defenses got tighter in the playoffs and he was facing tougher teams there. All those regular season scoring stuff doesn’t mean a thing. And ironically they like to hate on Lebron for stat padding – if shooting 40+ times in a game against a bad team isn’t stat padding then I don’t know what is.
    Sixthly, Phil Jackson gave him the biggest green light out of any superstar so to say he held Kobe back is digusting.
    Lastly, the ‘killer instinct’ stuff is just buzzwords that have no substance behind it. All his scoring achievements are regular season only, and he most definitely did not win 2 rings by himself.

    Typical example of a brainwashed Kobe fan. Whatever Kobe does if he wins its ALL him (pretend Shaq + Gasol didnt exist) and whenever he loses then it’s his teammates or he had injuries not his fault. Meanwhile for Lebron it’s the opposite – whenever Lebron loses it’s all his fault he got locked up choked etc if he won then it was his teammates who saved his legacy or he was stat padding etc doesn’t count or it was weak east or bubble ring etc gotta discredit him as much as possible.

    Prime example here is when he said Kobe ‘destroyed’ the Spurs and Lebron was ‘locked up’ by the Spurs.
    Kobe vs Spurs in 2004: 26/6/6/46% = ‘destroyed’ Spurs + Bruce Bowen
    Lebron vs Spurs in 2014: 28/8/4/57% = ‘locked up’ by Spurs + Kawhi

    So given all the guards that dropped their career highs on him (Gilbert Arenas, Jeremy Lin, Allan Houston, Stephon Marbury) you’re telling me that Kobe didn’t guard ANY of them? When he’s a 12x All-Def player?

    First of all notice how Kobe fans always have to bring up the 62 in 3 quarters and 81 points like a broken record. Secondly, imagine if Lebron shot 46 times in a game.. he’d be accused of stat padding for sure. There’s just way more Lebron haters than Kobe haters that’s why you hear people say Lebron stat pads more.. nobody credible says this, just twitter haters. You don’t stat pad your way to 10 Finals and 4 FMVPs. It’s just a convenient way to hate on a player you don’t like, just like ‘bubble ring’.

    First of all Kobe fans seem to think whenever he loses he always had Smush + Kwame. Lol he played with those guys only 2 seasons out of a 20 year career.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEUd3YfnWc&t=5s

    Secondly.. Lebron dropped 40 on Kobe including the game winner in his face.. and this was when Lebron had Zydrunas as his second best player and Kobe had Gasol…

    So basically Finals games are the only ones where the losses count? Lebron has the most playoff wins ever that doesn’t count?

    More lies. First of all it’s definitely not true that more NBA players think Kobe is better than Lebron.

    https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/04/08/anonymous-poll-of-nba-players-has-lebron-far-behind-jordan-in-goat-debate/

    Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe – back before Lebron won his 4th ring!

    So notice how all these Kobe fans say ‘majority’ of NBA players think he’s better and never give any proof of this?

    Secondly no media did NOT hate on Kobe in fact they gave him a bunch of free All-Def selections even when he wasn’t playing any defense. Lebron on the other hand.. whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about Lebron media posts about it. Brian Windhorst says that Lebron ‘wears out teams’? They spread it everywhere. Rodman says he can lock down Lebron? They spread it everywhere. Dr J says that Lebron isn’t in his top 5? Spread it everywhere. Lebron posts ‘keep the energy’ and then misses the playoffs? Media makes fun of him. Lebron posts a covid joke? Kareem and everyone else come out to make fun of him and media spreads these quotes everywhere. See, since did the media love Lebron? Media has hated on Lebron ever since The Decision.

    Meanwhile I have not seen a single piece of negative news the media has said about Kobe since his retirement in 2016. Even less so after his tragic passing.

    Thirdly, ‘Lebron’s media team members’ are really just analysts who recognize that Lebron is greater than Kobe. That doesn’t mean they have to be Lebron fanboys. Does Kareem have a bunch of media fanboys then? cause he’s also ranked ahead of Kobe higher on their lists.

    See these Kobe fans are so delusional and in denial, they genuinely live in their own world where it’s an echo chamber they all think Kobe was robbed of MVP and belongs in the GOAT convo and then someone outside of their bubble tells them otherwise they say there’s a conspiracy against Kobe. You can’t make this stuff up.

    This is just a snippet of how many delusional Kobe fans there are out there, but you’ll notice all of their arguments are based on very shallow stuff like quotes from NBA players, scoring numbers in reg season, 5 rings, ‘mamba mentality and work ethic etc’, gives him ALL the credit whenever he wins, but gets NONE of the blame whenever he loses, add on some conspiracy theories about him being robbed of MVP, puts him in the GOAT convo based on emotional arguments only and add on to that some made up BS sometimes. This is the typical Kobe fan. All emotion, no factual evidence or substance. That’s why they’re the worst fans in the NBA.

  • Who are the most obnoxious fans in the NBA?

    It’s easily Kobe Bryant fans

    They will make up lies, distort the facts, and act like hypocrites just to defend him, then if they don’t get their way they will personally insult you with ‘you don’t know basketball! you’re a casual! I’ll take what NBA fans say over you!’

    Here’s the problem, Kobe fans see Kobe as a top 2–3 player all time.

    If you’re going to rank a player in the top 2–3 all time, then that player should be heavily scrutinized. For example, every aspect of Lebron’s career is scrutinized, from getting a cramp to Jason Terry scoring 0.2PPG more than him in one series, to his Finals losses to flopping on the court. These tiny things from Lebron’s career are brought up over and over again and repeated ad infinitum, because Lebron’s thought of as a competitor to Jordan, thus he must be perfect at all times, else he’s disqualified from the GOAT convo.

    But for Kobe, his fans will virtually ignore and dismiss all negative aspects of Kobe’s career, and only look at his positive points. And then put him in the top 2–3 all time without ANY scrutiny whatsoever, and if you point out the negative aspects, they call you a ‘hater’ when it’s just giving him the same scrutiny everyone gives Lebron.

    They have a huge bag of excuses for Kobe for every negative thing in his career, of which there are ALOT. Just some examples:

    “Kobe only averaged 15 PPG in the 2000 Finals, Jalen Rose outscored him by 8 PPG”

    Kobe fan response: Kobe was injured! Jalen Rose intentionally injured him! He was only 21 years old! not his fault!

    “Kobe lost to Duncan in 2003, choked in the 2004 Finals”

    Kobe fan response: Kobe had drama with Shaq and the rape trial case going on! Pistons defense was too good! not his fault!

    “Kobe missed the playoffs in 2005, bounced out of the first round in 2006–2007, even when he was up 3–1 in 2006”

    Kobe fan response: Kobe had the worst supporting cast ever! Not his fault!

    “Kobe lost in 2008 Finals and had a really bad Game 7 in 2010 Finals”

    Kobe fan response: Kobe had an injured shooting hand/finger! not his fault!

    “Kobe was one of the worst players in the league 2014–2016”

    Kobe fan response: Kobe was injured! Not his fault!

    …see what I mean? They will blame literally everything except Kobe.

    And then there’s all these myths and conspiracies they have

    Myth: “Kobe got robbed of MVP in 2006 by Steve Nash! the media hated him!”

    Reality: No, Kobe was 4th in MVP voting in 2006. (2nd place was Lebron believe it or not). The reason is because he couldn’t carry his team to a high seed. The media didn’t ‘hate’ Kobe anymore than the media ‘hated’ Jordan in 1987 when he averaged 37 PPG, or Harden in 2019 when he averaged 36 PPG. Or going back further, Wilt didn’t even win MVP averaging 50 PPG. So what’s special about Kobe averaging 35 PPG and not winning MVP in 2006? The MVP has always been about team records. The only exception is Russell Westbrook in 2017 and that’s because he did something that hadn’t been done since Oscar Robertson in 1962. What did Kobe do in 2006 that hadn’t been done ever before? had one game where he scored 81? Well one game doesn’t make you an MVP. And like I mentioned both Jordan and Harden averaged more PPG than Kobe did and didn’t get MVP and neither of their fans are bitching and whining about being robbed.

    Myth: “Kobe had the worst supporting cast ever in his prime”

    Reality:

    ^ Kobe’s second best player on the 2006 team (Lamar Odom). Lamar averaging 19/11/5 a game. They lost in the first round. Same deal in 2007 where Lamar Odom averaged 19/13/2 a game – lost in first round.

    Notice how Kobe fans never talk about Lamar Odom, they act like Kobe played with Smush and Kwame for 20 years or something. FYI Kwame and Luke Walton both averaged 12/6 a game in that Suns series. Not great, but not ‘all time awful’ like Kobe fans want to make people believe.

    Myth: “Kobe is all time clutch”

    Reality: Not true.

    https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/articles/why-kobe-was-never-a-top-five-playerhttps://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/3/7485611/kobe-bryant-clutch-lakers-datahttps://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-timehttps://shortsportshorts.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/why-kobe-bryant-is-not-clutch/

    The thing about using 4th quarter point is any decent star can get a lot of 4th quarter points when they shoot 40 times a game. Some of those are bound to go in the 4th quarter.

    Myth: “Kobe is an all time elite defender”

    Although Kobe has more All-Def selections than Lebron, this is misleading as Kobe was never a great defender, especially after 2003 where he started slacking on defense. His on ball defense was merely mediocre while his off-ball defense was virtually non-existent. For example here are the top 20 players according to the amount of love they got in All-Defensive team votes in 2011, sorted from best to worst by defensive RAPM:

    Kobe is literally at the bottom, so how did Kobe get All-Def 1st team selection that year? I think again, this has much to do with the media. The media (contrary to what many Kobe fans believe as ‘hating’ Kobe) has been more generous with Kobe than any other superstar. They gave him 11x All-Def 1st team selections despite him not earning even half of those selections.

    Also I’ve never seen a so called ‘elite’ defensive player get so many guys feasting on him.

    https://youtu.be/4WW4Ot9Qqb8?fbclid=IwAR2qPO-h7X9ypKb9acA0Jn6YkHHlSIru3vxrpx4wkZjBqr1lZjv-DqEgWfU

    ^ Here’s Bonzi Wells, who Kobe always had trouble with

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvrxnY7paGM&fbclid=IwAR1z1Gr7E6Pcw5PU00E-XZ3ZcKJF-No3gX904GdWs53qoXufykXuW467n28

    ^ Here’s Iverson dropping 51 on him

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbApp17M1RY&t=1s&fbclid=IwAR2u15Km7fCy3_S22nysEeSbT7Q4p7C1wRrkGNTNdbh21NZumcfjM4-Uw_k

    ^ Here’s Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley dropping a combined 73

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNqAkOYRM1M&fbclid=IwAR3ip-xzEzsZ98Bw9OeSwGIKZ-RRecjG9U9fe5BxYbPwGpWyHhbvRRWeVx8

    ^ Here’s Allan Houston dropping 53 on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEUd3YfnWc&fbclid=IwAR25Y6NfXgRyXTQ-3DhykNWcTcCJkS0Vw4dGpe5npv26kyFNcgUC2DsnTcQ

    ^ Lebron getting 41 including buzzer beater on Kobes face

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLFT2KsU_7E&fbclid=IwAR0xCI7udalAPmPgdxMKmIErL9V4k5uq817UhJC0W1Gk3fwbQEFenBidb_w

    ^ Gilbert Arenas dropping 60 on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCYFcns8Xj8&fbclid=IwAR06gQzq8QboaWDZtZReTknUvkipujIPFPD1AWoa1Zs-xLJj4iqKZTLmW24

    ^ Jason Terry record number of 3 pters on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xCHKBIDtjk

    ^ Latrell Sprewell dropping 27 on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbcBkfokiI

    ^ Tmac dropping 38 on Kobe. Sure Kobe also had 38, but Tmac’s not the one being praised as an elite defender.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsKvIqXt3PI

    ^ Ray Allen dropping 30 on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoKN9RSLq8k 

    ^ Jeremy Lin getting his career high 38 on Kobe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEUd3YfnWc

    ^ Lebron not only shuts down Kobe in his prime while Lebron was still young, but also hits the jumper over him for the win.

    Myth: “Kobe bled purple and gold”

    Reality: Well, that’s not true. There’s multiple instances where Kobe requested a trade from the Lakers.

    Kobe Bryant confirms he wanted trade in 2007 to the Chicago Bulls

    Phil Jackson Says Kobe Bryant Requested Trade from Lakers During 1999-00 Season

    https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/10/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-trade-2007-lakers-cavaliers

    ^Lakers even wanted to trade Kobe straight up for Lebron in 2007, but Cavs refused because they knew even a 22 year old Lebron was still better than Kobe

    At the time Kobe had a bad squad and wanted out of LA. So it’s a misconception that Kobe was a die hard Laker.

    Myth: “NBA players think that Kobe is better than Lebron”

    Reality: Not true.

    This poll is from 2016, before Lebron won his 4th ring FYI. At that time, they surveyed all the NBA players and Lebron beat out Kobe by a few percentage points. It’s probably higher now.

    And the whole ‘I’ll take an NBA player’s opinion over yours!’ comeback if you really believe that then I think you should really take everything what Charles Barkley, Shaq, Kenny Smith, Kendrick Perkins, Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce and co say on TV as gospel because they are all NBA players and clearly know more than a non sports playing analyst so they must be always right. Right?

    Myth: “the NBA didn’t want to give Kobe CP3 because they didn’t want Kobe to win more rings!”

    Reality: the NBA owned the Hornets at the time, and they had ultimate say over that team. It’s not an issue of the NBA hating Kobe (which is ridiculous considering how globally popular he was) and favoring Lebron. Firstly there’s no evidence that Kobe would have been able to win more rings with CP3 at all, considering that Kobe was on the decline since 2011. Anyone who watched Kobe in 2011 against the Mavs when he got swept can easily see he got outplayed that series. There’s also no proof he could co-exist with a perimeter star. Secondly, if anything the NBA gave Kobe a free ring in 2002 when the referees admitted that they favored the Lakers over the Kings. So how could the NBA hate Kobe when they gave him a free ring?

    And when you bring up all these facts to them they accuse you of ‘hating’ on him and dismiss it. like WTF if you’re gonna put Kobe in the GOAT convo you gotta scrutinize him like he’s in the GOAT convo. You can’t just pretend his negatives don’t happen and ignore the facts. Even his rape trial – I don’t care if he’s guilty or not but the fact is he cheated on his wife. That’s never mentioned ever.

    And every time Kobe is not mentioned as part of the convo, his fans continue to bitch and whine and complain “not having the Mamba is disrespecful! the disrespect!’ etc

    Its just a small sample of the type of comments I get from Kobe fans whenever I bring up Kobe’s negatives, you’ll notice a lot commonalities

    -says that you don’t know basketball

    -personal insults

    -claims to be a basketball expert yet doesn’t back up anything they say with stats or footage or tangible evidence

    -says that NBA players all know more than you (assumption that NBA players all think Kobe is in the GOAT convo)

    -calls you a hater for bringing up Kobe’s negatives

    So all in all I think it’s safe to say that the majority of Kobe’s fanbase are whiny, bitchy casuals. they blame everything except for Kobe – the NBA, the media, his teammates etc they are hypocrites, and will criticize Lebron for things like getting a cramp or getting outscored by 0.2PPG, but when Kobe is locked up by Tayshaun Prince or cheats on his wife or shoots 25% then they always have an excuse ready for it. They will call you a hater if you rank Kobe anywhere below top 5. They just can’t accept that their lord and savior Kobe doesn’t deserve to be in the GOAT convo and never will.

  • What bothers you the most about NBA fans?

    The whole “Finals record” argument.

    I don’t think casuals look deeper than just looking at who won and who lost. They just look at W vs L and that’s it.

    Basketball is a 5v5 game, it’s not like boxing or tennis, it’s not an individual sport. But at the same time, basketball doesn’t have as many players as soccer or football does. Basketball is a team game that is very affected by individual performance. There’s a reason why people don’t claim that Isiah Thomas is better than Jordan, Bird and Magic even though he beat them in the playoffs. There’s a reason why Robert Horry is not considered better than Jordan even though he has 7 rings / 7-0 and Jordan has 6. Because context matters.

    When people decide to look at only who wins and who loses, and saying that the losing player choked, it means that they are not taking the time to do any research to see what each player contributed to that win and what that player did in the loss.

    All time great NBA players are able to elevate their teammates, but there’s a limit to it. Let’s look at the best players in the league today – Lebron, KD, Giannis – even if you give them a bunch of high schoolers to play with, they could probably still take that team pretty far – but it’s not like they are still going to beat the best teams in the league or anything. There’s a limit to what even great players are able to do. Jordan with subpar teams wasn’t able to get past the first round, Kobe with subpar teams couldn’t get past the first round, heck look at Steph Curry leading the league in scoring and still couldn’t even make the playoffs. Nobody’s saying these players choked though.

    But when it comes to Finals records and Finals losses, it particuarly infuriates me because not only do you disregard the teams that player had and the opponents that player played against, but you are also insinuating that it’s better to not make the Finals than to make it. Which is a ridiculous argument. Anyone who plays sports knows that the goal is to win a championship. In order to win that championship you have to make it to the Final round. In that Final round, one team always wins and one team always loses. There has to be a winner and a loser, every year, every time. But it doesn’t mean that the losing team necessarily choked (well, unless they were up 3–1 or something), most of the time it just means that one team happened to be better than the other. And even the NBA’s all time greats however great they may be, can’t turn lemons into the best lemonade, if they’re up against another brand of great lemonade. One person can only do so much. You can’t just say oh im afraid of losing in the Finals, so lets just miss the playoffs. In that case is Karl Anthony-Towns (0–0 Finals record) better than Charles Barkley (0–1 Finals record)??

    Case in point lets look at three of the biggest ‘losers’ of all time: Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Lebron James

    Elgin Baylor

    All people know is he’s 0–8 in the Finals. Well let’s look at how he did in those Finals losses

    1959 Finals (loss): 22.8 PPG / 11.8 RPG / (no APG recorded on bball reference for some reason for this Finals)

    1962 Finals (loss): 40.6 PPG / 17.9 RPG / 3.7 APG

    1963 Finals (loss): 33.8 PPG / 15.0 RPG / 5.3 APG

    1965 Finals – he actually didnt play in this Finals due to injury. So I don’t think this FInals loss even counts, yet people count it

    1966 Finals (loss): 25.0 PPG / 15.0 RPG / 2.3 APG

    1968 Finals (loss): 26.2 PPG / 12.5 RPG / 4.3 APG

    1969 Finals (loss): 18.0 PPG / 10.3 RPG / 3.9 APG

    1970 Finals (loss): 17.9 PPG / 11.3 RPG / 4.7 RPG

    Now let’s look at Jerry West’s Finals losses – how can he be called Mr Clutch if he lost 8 times right?

    1962 Finals (loss): 31.1 PPG / 5.0 RPG / 2.7 APG

    1963 Finals (loss): 29.5 PPG / 6.8 RPG / 4.5 APG

    1965 Finals (loss): 33.8 PPG / 5.6 RPG / 3.4 APG

    1966 Finals (loss): 33.9 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 5.1 APG

    1968 Finals (loss): 31.3 PPG / 5.8 RPG / 5.7 APG

    1969 Finals (loss): 37.9 PPG / 4.7 RPG / 7.4 APG

    1970 Finals (loss): 31.3 PPG / 3.4 RPG / 7.7 APG

    1973 Finals (loss): 21.4 PPG / 3.2 RPG / 4.6 APG

    See when you look at the numbers, It’s hard to say that Baylor and West ever ‘choked’ its more like they had no help in the Finals. The best teammate they had besides each other was Rudy Larusso who was a decent rebounder and physical player but when ur up against a team with Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, Bob Cousy, John Havlicek, Sam Jones, Frank Ramsey, Bailey Howell, all Hall of Famers, its easy to see why Baylor and West lost so many times. It’s essentially two guys against a stacked team.

    And then let’s look at Lebron

    Of course, everyone knows he lost 6 times in the Finals

    2007 Finals (loss): 22.0 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 6.8 APG

    2011 Finals (loss): 17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG

    2014 Finals (loss): 28.2 PPG / 7.4 RPG / 4.0 APG

    2015 Finals (loss): 35.8 PPG / 13.3 RPG / 8.8 APG

    2017 Finals (loss): 33.6 PPG / 12.0 RPG / 10.0 APG

    2018 Finals (loss): 34.0 PPG / 8.5 RPG / 10.0 APG

    So, aside from 2007 (where his second leading scorer was Drew Gooden with 13 PPG) and 2011 (where he gets his most criticism) I’d say Lebron pretty much carried the team in his other losses. Hard to say he ‘choked’ except in 2011, which is one Finals out of 10.

    So the fact that casuals focus so much on Finals losses and think these guys choked makes me livid. Go play some actual sports and do some research.

  • Why do so many casual NBA fans discredit Wilt Chamberlain because he played in a “weak” era?

    Honestly, I think it’s part ignorance and part denial.

    First of all, since Wilt played in the 1960s and he’s no longer around to defend himself, and most of the people who watched him play are getting too old themselves, it’s very easy for the typical Gen Z / Millenial fan to point out that:

    1. Wilt played in an 8 team league
    2. Wilt’s numbers are inflated
    3. Wilt played against short white plumbers
    4. Bill Russell dominated him
    5. Shaq or whoever else would have owned that era

    And all of these have a counterargument:

    1. An 8 team league would actually be more competitive, not less since more talent is concentrated in fewer teams
    2. Wilt’s numbers are not duplicated by anyone else of his era
    3. You can do some research and see that Wilt played against a guy 6′9 or taller at his position on every team, and that the average height back then was only 1″ shorter
    4. Bill Russell had a better team than Wilt did most of the time
    5. Time travel shenanigans don’t make any sense; today’s athletes benefit from the athletes that came before them. Barry Bonds would probably dominate in Babe Ruth’s era. Mike Tyson would have dominated in Muhammed Ali’s era. Wayne Gretzky would have dominated in Gordie Howe’s era. Any person with a college education today would have dominated Isaac Newton’s era. It doesn’t make any sense, and only for basketball do we discredit the older greats.

    So I think it’s just ignorance for that part.

    For the second part, I think it’s also denial. People see Wilt’s numbers and roll their eyes. They ignore it because Wilt’s numbers are too insane. They are video game numbers. How could someone have actually put up those numbers? That can’t be. That means that Wilt would be numbers-wise better than any other player in NBA history by a wide margin including Michael Jordan and Lebron James. The greatest of all time can’t be a guy that played 50 years ago. That’s impossible and not fun to think about. No, the greatest of all time has to be someone who played relatively recently so we can see all his footage and debate with other people who have seen him play. Wilt probably just got his numbers because everyone else sucked back then.

    And thus, that’s why Wilt Chamberlain will always be IMO underrated because he was TOO dominant for his era to the point of it being too unbelievable. ESPN even left him out of their top 5 list. It’s really sad.

  • Why do so many NBA fans still rank Kobe over Lebron?

    -Lebron often gets put in the GOAT debate against Michael Jordan by analysts, but one other very polarizing player is often brought up by casual fans: Kobe Bryant. Why is this?
    -Lebron is ranked ahead of Kobe by all major sports publications
    -Lebron is ahead of Kobe in virtually every statistical category including advanced stats, except for FT%
    -Lebron is catching up to Kobe and will very soon pass Kobe in the all time scoring leaderboard, despite playing 4 less seasons so far, and is already way ahead of Kobe in total assists and rebounds
    -Lebron is also ahead of Kobe in MVPs, Finals MVPs, All-NBA selections and Rookie of the Year. Kobe has more rings, scoring titles, all-star selections and All-defensive selections.

    Personally I believe Lebron is a greater player than Kobe. But many many NBA fans think that Kobe is better. If Lebron is so dominant statistically then why do so many NBA fans still think Kobe is a better player? Let me take some common arguments and break them down

    Some reasons:

    1. Kobe has more rings and didn’t lose as much in the Finals

    Rings is a team achievement but when comparing all time greats, it is one of the most common measures used to define a great player. Jordan has 6 rings. Kareem has 6 rings. Bill Russell has 11 rings. I don’t think it is quite fair to judge a player solely on rings though, since like I said there’s 4 other players on the team at any given time. Roughly 15-18 players win a ring every year, compared to only 1 player who wins MVP. But I digress.
    And also Finals records, which only came up as a measure after Lebron lost his 6th Finals against the Warriors in 2015. At that time, he was 2-4 in the Finals. Now he’s 3-6 and will likely remain that way for the rest of his career.
    Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals which is objectively better than 3-6, so that’s one argument that NBA fans use to debate why Kobe is better. Of course, this doesn’t take into account the fact that Kobe wasn’t the best player on his team for his first 3 rings, nor the fact that losing before the Finals is technically worse than losing in the Finals (since you need to make it to the Finals to have a chance to win a ring). Much is also made of Lebron missing the playoffs this year in 2019. Keep in mind that Kobe also missed the playoffs once in his prime, in 2005, as well as his last 3 seasons with the Lakers.

    2. Kobe didn’t need a ‘superteam’ to win, played in a tougher conference

    This is technically an incorrect argument, if you consider the definition of a superteam. If people want to define superteam as superstar players that join the team, that are not originally drafted by the team, then Kobe technically joined a superteam when he was drafted!
    Since he was drafted by the Hornets, not the Lakers, he was traded to the Lakers after. Ok, so let’s not be technical. I guess that doesn’t count. How about Shaq joining as a free agent that same year? Does that not count as a superteam? What about when Gary Payton and Karl Malone joined the Lakers in 2004 looking to win a ring? Was that not a superteam? Or when Kobe and Gasol teamed up with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash in 2012? Is that not a superteam? I mean, Karl Malone was still an effective player, and Dwight Howard was still in his prime at that time; he led the league in rebounding that year.
    So why is Lebron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami a superteam, but apparently not Kobe’s team in those years?

    3. Kobe played in a tougher conference

    As for playing in a tougher conference – it’s irrelevant. If this argument is to imply that Lebron cruised his way to the Finals, then you cannot make the argument that Lebron lost in the Finals more – because if the West was tougher and had better teams then Lebron should have always had a uphill battle against those Western teams (which he did). He lost more Finals because he faced tougher teams, because those teams came from the Western conference. If Lebron played in the West, he would have needed a really good team to get to the Finals, increasing his chance of winning when he got there, and thus had a better Finals record. So if you put Lebron in the West, he would have ironically had a much better Finals record than he does now, which undermines other argument that Lebron is worse because he lost more Finals.

    4. Kobe was more loyal to his team and never quit on his team

    Again, not really a factual argument. Kobe asked to be traded several times in his prime, when he had a bad team back in 2005-2007. Back then, Kobe wanted to be traded to the Pistons, Bulls and even the Clippers. Finally the Lakers management got Pau Gasol sent from the Grizzlies to the Lakers, dramatically improving the Lakers chance of winning. Adding Gasol in 2008 took the Lakers from a first round exit in 2007 all the way to the Finals. Lebron played in Cleveland for 7 seasons, where the management did not surround him with any good players, then went to Miami, then came back to the Cavs to win them their first championship ever. I’d say at that point any perception that Lebron isn’t loyal should be thrown out the window – he brought the Cavs to every one of its Finals in franchise history and won them their only ring.

    5. Kobe was tougher than Lebron

    I think this is a general argument thats been applied to anyone in the current NBA. the argument that the current NBA is ‘too soft’, that players like Lebron and Harden wouldn’t be able to play in the 80s and 90s because they wouldn’t handle the physical abuse, that’s all popular narrative, but isn’t really true. Modern day NBA players take advantage of the no hand checking rules, and as a result, flop more so that they have more opportunity to shoot free throws. This is a smart strategy, which results in free points for them. It has nothing to do with being ‘soft’ or ‘tough’. Kobe would have done the same thing in his era, because he would have averaged more points doing so. It’s laughable that Lebron, a 280lb freight train of a man, would have trouble in the 80s or 90s with hand checking rules. He flops because the rules are different, not because he’s weak. And yes I know that Kobe tore his Achilles and sank two free throws in 2013 while Lebron got a cramp in 2014 and had to be carried off the floor. Different circumstances, different injuries. But Isiah Thomas and many other former players have backed Lebron up in saying that when you got a cramp you literally cannot even move.

    6. Kobe was more clutch than Lebron and had ‘killer instinct’

    Again, not borne by the facts. As all the stats show. Kobe is 7/28 in last 24 seconds of 4th quarter of the playoffs while Lebron is 8/22 a much higher percentage. Kobe fans want to say ‘but he had 36 game winners in the regular season!’. But that’s the regular season, ask anybody clutch plays matter in the playoffs way more than in the regular season. Unlike Lebron’s game saving block on Andre Iguodala in the 2016 Finals, Kobe does not have a highlight game winner in any Finals. For those people who like to say that Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving saved Lebron’s legacy btw, I would also like to mention that basketball is a team game, there’s 5 people on a team, not one, and that Robert Horry and Derek Fisher saved Kobe the exact same way so… yeah. And the whole ‘killer instinct’ and ‘mamba mentality’ are nice buzzwords that Kobe can use to sell his products, but all it really means is that Kobe likes to take the shot more. Whether he hits it or not, doesn’t matter. Lebron has a tendency to pass the ball in the closing moments, making a better basketball decision instead. Kobe’s mamba mentality might be a better narrative for marketing himself, but in a real life basketball game you would not want to play with the teammate who takes all the shots all the time; you would much rather play with a teammate who would pass you the ball when you are open so that you can make the shot.

    7. Kobe was robbed of MVPs

    Again, not true. The MVP voting shows that Kobe was not on the MVP ballot in 2005 (the year Steve Nash won it), 4th place in 2006 (the second year Nash won it), 3rd place in 2007 (when Dirk won it), before winning it in 2008. The year you could say Kobe got ‘robbed’ was 2009, although Lebron’s win shares that year clearly favor him. For all the talk that Nash robbed Kobe – you can see clearly that you can’t be robbed when you were not even on the ballot and 4th place. If anything it was Dirk that got robbed.

    8. Kobe was more skilled than Lebron – and he’s the closest to Jordan

    I think this has something to do with the perception that smaller guards are more ‘skilled’ than big men due to big men having the size advantage. I don’t think this is fair to Lebron since Lebron didn’t choose to be born taller or stronger, but this is also a reason why some other GOAT candidates like Kareem, Wilt and Russell often get left out of the GOAT debate; not only because they played a long time ago, but also because they were big men. And same thing with Tim Duncan, who’s resume compares very favorably with Kobe yet is almost always left out of the GOAT debate. But because Duncan is a big man, he is not seen as ‘skilled’ as Kobe is, less people argue for his place in the GOAT debate than Kobe fans. And yes skillwise, Kobe is the closest to Jordan. But that doesn’t mean he should be #2 just because Jordan is #1. The gap between Jordan and Kobe is actually quite large, and although out of scope for this video, anyone can google and see that Jordan beats Kobe in pretty much every category – and not by a small amount.

    9. Kobe is a better scorer than Lebron

    The scoring statistics Kobe fans like to bring up, how many 60 points games he scored, that famous 81 point game, and scoring more than the entire Mavericks team in 3 quarters, etc again, makes for an exciting headline, but is not really a good argument since basketball is about so much more than scoring. Else Wilt Chamberlain would be the GOAT. And not just that but Kobe is famously inefficient when he scores. That 81 point game he shot 46 times making him unusually efficient that night, but that’s not his usual FG%. For example in his last game, he scored 60 points on 50 shots. Which is ridiculous. For comparison, Steph Curry’s 3PT % (44%) is almost as high as Kobe’s 2PT % (44.9%). If Curry shot as much as Kobe did, one could only guess how long it would take Steph to break Kobe’s 81 points.

    10. Lebron is a toxic teammate and has a big ego

    Again, an incorrect assumption. Lebron formed a “superteam” with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh – you can’t form a superteam if players don’t want to play with you. And of course many other players have joined Lebron including Kevin Love, Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Javale McGee, etc The assumption that he is a toxic teammate comes from Kyrie Irving wanting to part ways with Lebron because he wanted to be an alpha dog (so far not having much luck there), and the perception that Lebron ‘takes over’ every team that he joins. That’s because Lebron is an alpha dog and a superstar player. This is ironically, the trait that Lebron haters accuse him of not having, those leadership qualities. Taking over a team and being the alpha dog is by definition, being the leader. Those are leadership qualities, the same kind that dare I say it, Michael Jordan exhibits whenever he leads a team. No one complains that Jordan took over a team too much though. And here’s more hypocrisy: Kobe was the primary reason why Shaq left LA and went to Miami. Kobe was a BIG factor in why free agents weren’t signing with the Lakers in Kobe’s last years. Kobe was also taking up the highest salary in the league while staying injured. Nobody wanted to play with Kobe, because Kobe is known to be a demanding player. But Kobe didn’t get any hate for it the way Lebron did. And same thing with the ego as well. When Lebron called himself the GOAT in an interview, people went nuts. They criticized him left and right. Just recently, Kobe Bryant did the exact same thing and ranked himself the GOAT above Jordan and Lebron. And no one cared. He also trash talked Smush Parker in a podcast when Lebron refused to criticize JR Smith for his 2018 Finals Game 1 blunder. Kobe would have massacred JR for that mistake. So why is Lebron perceived as arrogant and its a criticism but Kobe is arrogant and its a positive about him? Bottom line is you cannot accuse Lebron of being a toxic teammate and having a big ego when Kobe had literally the same issues.

    Bonus argument: Most players think Kobe is better therefore Kobe is better than Lebron
    Most NBA players grew up watching Kobe or Jordan play. They idolized Kobe and Jordan – so its not a stretch as to why so many players prefer Kobe – now that more players prefer Kobe is actually not true because the recent NBA players poll indicated that most (over 70%) considered Jordan the GOAT and Lebron was a few percentage points over Kobe as the GOAT. so the reality is actually over 70% of NBA players think Jordan is the best (unsurprisingly), and an almost equal number think Lebron and Kobe are the best (with Lebron slightly higher). So it’s false that more NBA players think Kobe is better than Lebron.

    Ok, I went through 10 arguments + a bonus NBA fans had for Kobe and dissected them. Let me know if you have any counter-arguments and let me know in the comments below. Thanks for watching!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74k1Xbfs3eo