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Politics

Why do some overseas Chinese desire to see China collapse and fail?

I’m a first generation Chinese immigrant. I was born in China but grew up and educated in the West (Canada).

I don’t want to see China collapse and fail at all, my main concern is the actions that the CCP has taken in recent years has resulted in quite concerning consequences.

The Hu Jintao years were great for China, that was when China became a major world power, the 2008 Beijing Olympics really being the point where I could say wow China has come a long way and now they are on the world stage, caught up to Japan and Korea technology wise, and catching up to the US GDP wise. At that time Chinese were still quite humble about themselves and saw a desire to improve their country.

But after Hu stepped down and Xi Jinping took over, I saw a much more protectionist shift.

Websites blocked in mainland China – Wikipedia

Check out this list of websites blocked in China, and take note of how many of those websites were blocked post 2011 when Xi Jinping came to power. That’s most of the list. Now if you go to China as a tourist, 95% of your apps and websites will probably be blocked. You also won’t be able to use your credit cards anymore, since China is now largely cashless. It’s basically a big F U to foreigners when you go to China.

I myself saw a huge difference when I went to Shanghai first in 2011, then last year in 2018. Back then, I could still access my websites and apps, there was more friendliness to foreigners, and I didn’t sense as much materialism or arrogance back then. Then last year I went back, and although technology has improved a lot – the people have gotten more unfriendly, being a foreigner made you a target, everyone was very materialistic and judged you if you didn’t support China etc

Since Xi took over and in recent years, China has gotten increasingly more aggressive when it comes to blocking or censoring foreign websites and apps. They’ve gotten much more politically sensitive and eager to ban or boycott foreign companies or persons (notably Korea, Japan, Canada and US all suffered some kind of ban or boycott in recent years).

I can see the motivation for Xi Jinping’s approach – which is to protect the Chinese industry and people – but I also think its unhealthy for the people. Because of the degree of censorship, anti-Western bias played by Chinese media and political sensitivity in China these days, Chinese have become more and more nationalistic, less humble and notably, anti-Western, especially compared to the Hu Jintao era.

Now all it takes to get yourself banned from China is to is to be on good terms with the US (Korea, Canada), say something about Hong Kong (NBA, various celebrities, etc) or criticize their human rights abuses (Soccer club Arsenal, South Park etc) or mentioning Winnie the Pooh, Tibet, Taiwan etc any number of things will get yourself banned and criticized on Chinese social media.

Take a look on Quora for example, or other social media (Chinese have to use VPN to access Western social media) and all I see are anti-Western answers and comments saying how Western democracy has failed, Americans are arrogant, theres a anti-Chinese conspiracy going on, Westerners want China to fail (i.e this very question is an example of that), Westerners are all brainwashed to hate China, Americans are hypocrites etc that’s all I see.

I don’t think its healthy to have this anti-Western, pro-Chinese sentiment going on at this degree, and that’s led to Chinese losing their humility and lose sight of what made them improve from the 1990s in the first place which is the ability to self-criticize, learn from their mistakes and improve their country.

What a marked difference from the Hu Jintao era. Now it’s all about ‘China is the best country in the world, we have the best economy, we are allowed to bully other countries because America does it, and anyone who criticizes us must have been brainwashed to do so’

This is a rather concerning development, and its a result of the protectionist / nationalistic push that China has taken in the Xi Jinping years. So it’s not that I have any desire to see China fail, I just disagree with the current Xi Jinping government and most Chinese netizens because I think that their actions in recent years is what leads to a lot of deserved criticism from foreigners and foreign countries, and they don’t seem to acknowledge it or want to change/improve that.

I supported China in the Hu Jintao era. Now, I don’t want to anymore – a lot of China’s uber nationalism, arrogance, hypocritical actions, banning/boycotting and economic bullying of other countries just makes me think of China as the Eastern version of the USA, and that just makes me ashamed to associate myself with Chinese in recent years. I thought China/Chinese were better than that and wanted to be better than USA/Americans, not become like them.

Lest Chinese forget, protectionism and arrogance is exactly what caused the Qing Dynasty to fail…

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Categories
Asia

What is the Chinese argument for Taiwan being a part of China?

Taiwan is not a part of China, and I say this not because I was ‘brainwashed’ by Western education but by the reality of the situation.

-China (PRC) has no governmental authority over Taiwan

-Chinese need a visa to visit Taiwan

-Taiwan has its own currency and flag

-Taiwanese have their own passport

Aren’t these things enough to prove that Taiwan is not a part of China?

Of course, I have to address some of the arguments Chinese people commonly make:

”Taiwan used to be Chinese territory and Japan unlawfully took it away and it rightfully belongs to China”

Yes thats how war works. When you lose a war, you lose territory. Why would Taiwan be any different? Singapore used to be Malaysian territory. Pakistan used to be India territory. Kosovo is a current disputed state that used to be Serbian territory. Hell if you want to go back to Qing Dynasty times, Texas used to be part of Mexico and Canada used to be part of the UK. Fact of the matter is just because something used to be part of your territory doesn’t mean it’s part of the current territory.

-”Taiwan is part of China according to Chinese constitution and ROC map shows mainland China as theirs so Taiwan is part of China”

This has to be most ridiculous argument. Just because a territory is legally written in the constitution as part of your territory does not make it so. Else the USA can just amend their constitution to include China as a US State and boom! China is now a state of the USA right? No, it doesn’t work like that. And mainland China being included in ROC’s map is just proof of my point here as well; how many Chinese would agree that ROC has control over mainland China? You disagree? Well that’s what the map says so it must be true right? North Korea still considers South Korea part of their territory on their constitution. Again, does the world think that SK is part of NK? I don’t think so. 

”Taiwan is not recognized by the UN as a country, UN recognizes China as the real China, so it’s not a country”

First of all, UN only accepted PRC as the rightful Chinese government over ROC when they saw that mainland China’s economy was catching up and surpassing Taiwan’s economy and thus it was diplomatically advantageous to recognize PRC as the “true” government, secondly UN does not determine who is a country and who isn’t. UN was only created in 1945 so does that mean there were no countries prior to 1945? China (PRC) didn’t join the UN until 1971 – previously ROC was representing China – does that mean mainland China (PRC) didn’t exist as a separate country until then? Makes no sense.

”But Hong Kong has own visas, passports, own currency, own flag etc and you agree that it’s part of China.”

Hong Kong is a special case – part of the one country, two systems – and the important difference between Hong Kong and Taiwan lies here: China (PRC) has no governmental authority over Taiwan – it does have governmental authority over Hong Kong. In fact that’s what led to the currently ongoing Hong Kong protests.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument from mainland Chinese that Taiwan is part of China.

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Categories
Asia

What do Chinese Americans think about China and Chinese students in America nowadays?

I am neither ABC/CBC or a ‘FOB’ as the term ABCs refer to Asians from Asia. I straddle both cultures. I was born in China, but raised in Canada. And I grew up in a small city in the Canadian countryside, not like Toronto or Vancouver or anything. I was only one of two Asian students in my high school. For a long time, I thought I was the same as white people.
Then I went to the University of Toronto which was and still is, full of Asians both Canadian born and FOBs. While I was in the CS program, it was mostly skewed towards the Canadian born Chinese side. We had some Koreans and Japanese but overall we had more Chinese which makes sense because there’s more Chinese in existence than Koreans or Japanese which means there’s more Chinese Canadians as well.
The first thing I noticed is, even though it felt more ‘comfortable’ being with someone of the same race, at the same time it felt ‘uncomfortable’ too, because in my experience, Asian Canadians or Asian Americans had the same personality as Caucasian Canadians or Americans. They had the same sense of aggressiveness, were generally pretty outgoing, and joked around a lot. That was something I felt very uncomfortable with since I was more shy, reserved and felt that I didn’t fit in *quite* as well as I thought.
So then I met some FOB friends from mainland China, who I started to hang out with more. I thought that they were quite different than my Chinese Canadian friends, but again some differences arose and I still didn’t feel very ‘comfortable’.
The main problem was that mainland Chinese i.e FOBs seemed to be very close minded. They had too much pride in their country. They refused to listen to any criticisms I had about China or any positive things about other Asian countries. They refused to mingle with Koreans or Japanese while my Chinese Canadian friends were all open minded to do so. Plus, they cared a little bit too much about their material wealth, making money and studying in my opinion. There’s other things to life but they didn’t seem to be very open to entertaining them.
So I felt like a fish out of water. Neither comfortable with Chinese Canadians or mainland Chinese. What can I do? When I moved to the USA, I had the pleasure of befriending Koreans. Previously, my extent of contact with Koreans (since fobby Chinese never hung out with fobby Koreans), was at church since Koreans were for some reason, strangely fanatical about Christianity. And they seemed to be nice people. But as I befriended new Korean friends, I got more interested in Korean culture than Chinese culture.
Even though I had studied Chinese, and travelled to China before, and met lots of nice Chinese people I didn’t feel the same ‘connection’ with them like I felt with Koreans. After I visited Korea, I realized that it was the place I wanted to be. And I did. I quit my job, and I moved to Korea. For 2 years, it was the most interesting period of my life. I think before I moved there, I didn’t realize just how different Korean culture was from Chinese culture. I think most ABCs or CBCs grow up thinking Asians are Asians, but we aren’t. Every Asian is so different, actually. It’s hard to realize this amongst Asian Americans because Korean American and Chinese American personality and culture is not so different, but man is it different from mainland Chinese and Koreans or ‘FOB’ Chinese and ‘FOB’ Koreans. That’s why they don’t hang out with each other.
For one thing, Koreans had the most unity out of all Asians. They just stuck together and supported each other. In China, it was everyone for themselves. Also, the traditional gender roles and Confucian values were alive and well in Korea whereas they had all but vanished from modern China. Bowing, being respectful, etc were still a thing in Korea. It was so safe you could leave your phone on a table for hours and no one would take it. I know China is safe too – relatively – but you definitely would not be able to do that in China without getting your phone stolen. And dare I say it – it was a little cleaner than China now. In China you can be as direct and blunt as you want and it’s normal. And my god were Korean women beautiful. I couldn’t believe how different it was. In mainland China there was beautiful women too, but they were a little hard to come by. Shanghai had the most, but even there you had to walk around a little bit to see a beautiful girl. In contrast, Seoul had gorgeous women everywhere. Any cafe, bar, on the street, etc and they were all wearing makeup! and dressed like they were going clubbing! China by contrast people dressed way more casually and usually girls didn’t wear any makeup. When Koreans marry, the husband and wife have their separate roles, whereas in China, the wife and husband share duties equally. Korea was full of housewives whereas in China housewives are all but nonexistent. In China the guy was almost like a slave to his gf – always buying everything, paying for everything, carrying all her shopping bags – and seeing a guy get hit in public by his gf wasn’t that uncommon. In Korea, the guy usually pays too but not for everything – and I’ve never seen a Korean guy hold shopping bags for his gf or getting hit by his gf you will never see that there. It was like a night and day difference.
So yeah, I think in the end, I fit better in Korean culture than either Chinese or Chinese Canadian culture, but I think there’s pros and cons to everything. Some of my best friends are still mainland ‘fobby’ Chinese. They aren’t all close minded. But I think for the majority that I came across in university they did seem to be a little more ignorant and some of them straight up refused to use any foreign websites sticking to Chinese websites only. Hey umm there’s no Great Firewall here you don’t need to only use Chinese websites… not to mention the fact that there seems to be crazy rumors spread about Koreans on Chinese websites most of which have no inkling of truth at all… I’m not sure why Chinese people would say about Koreans whom they’ve never met except perhaps they are jealous that Koreans have a better entertainment industry than they do? Also, never speak to mainland FOBs about Taiwan. You will almost always end up arguing.

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