Blue is Me

Tag: ABA

  • Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won 4 NBA MVPs before NBA-ABA merger. Was he really the most valuable player in those 4 seasons, if we compared his MVP seasons to ABA MVP winner in the same season?

    Ooh I get to talk about the ABA? That’s always fun.

    Yes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was the best player even if we combine the two leagues together in the 1970s.

    Let’s look at all the MVP awards in both leagues in the 70s:

    1970: Willis Reed (NBA) and Spencer Haywood (ABA) – I think if we go by pure stats Haywood was pretty ridiculous in 1970 putting up 30/19 a game however the ABA was also extremely weak in this era. I think this one is actually pretty close between Reed and Haywood. Reed got it more based on his leadership of the Knicks rather than pure stats.

    1971: Kareem (NBA) and Mel Daniels (ABA). Kareem was the better player. Daniels is similar to a Reed / Cowens type player. Great player, great rebounder, lots of hustle, tough… but he wasn’t Kareem especially not on offense.

    1972: Kareem (NBA) and Artis Gilmore (ABA). While Gilmore is a great rebounder and defender, 1972 Kareem was bonkers and had probably the best year of his career. I’m talking Jokic level stat production (35/16/5) on offense while also playing incredible defense. It’s definitely Kareem.

    1973: Dave Cowens (NBA) and Billy Cunningham (ABA). Now this is an interesting one. I think Cunningham was probably the better overall player doing more for his team here putting up 24/12/6 a game while Cowens got the MVP more or less based on him being the star big man on the 68 win Celtics.

    1974: Kareem (NBA) and Dr J (ABA). While I love me some ABA Dr J, it’s again Kareem here. Kareem with the Bucks was just a monster on both offense and defense, it’s hard to overstate exactly how good Bucks Kareem was.

    1975: Bob McAdoo (NBA) and George McGinnis / Dr J (ABA). So this one had a co-MVP award in the ABA. Offense wise, I think it’s pretty much all a tossup. They were all doing everything for their teams on offense. Defense wise I think Dr J would have the edge here so overall I might take Dr J over McGinnis and McAdoo.

    1976: Kareem (NBA) and Dr J (ABA). Now stats wise I think it’s close between Dr J and Kareem here – but I think based on team impact Dr J might actually have the edge since Kareem’s Lakers didn’t make the playoffs.. and Dr J won the ABA championship that year. So this one I might actually take Dr J by a hair.

    Even if we combined the two leagues together I think Kareem would still win 3 out of his 4 MVPs before the merger. The only year he might have lost it is to 1976 Dr J (Dr J’s best year of his career)

    Reed, Cowens and McAdoo are the ones who’s legacy might be more damaged if the MVP award was shared between leagues.

  • Are there any underrated NBA legends who could surprise everyone in a 1-on-1 tournament against the greats?

    I’ll give you a player many people don’t talk about enough: Roger Brown

    He was a New York City playground legend and an ABA legend. He won 3 championships and a Finals MVP with the ABA Indiana Pacers.

    But more than that if we’re talking 1 vs 1, Roger Brown was given the nickname “The Rajah” and “The man with 1000 moves”. This dude had every move in the bag to score against you. He proved that in the 1970 ABA playoffs, scoring 53 points in the 1970 ABA Finals Game 4, the most ever scored in an ABA Finals game. At his peak before injuries robbed him of his athleticism, this guy was a beast. It’s a shame he never got to play in the NBA due to the NBA blackballing him (along with Connie Hawkins and others) unfairly associating him with point shaving scandals.

  • Who are some of the most underrated players in NBA history that were really good during their prime years?

    There’s quite a few actually.

    Connie Hawkins – one hell of a player before his injuries. Won the ABA MVP, ABA scoring title, ABA Championship AND ABA Playoffs (Finals) MVP as a ROOKIE averaging 30/12/5 in the 1968 playoffs. In the 1970 playoffs, Hawkins averages 26/14/6 against a stacked Lakers team consisting of Jerry West / Elgin Baylor / Wilt Chamberlain and takes them to 7 games. He was a tremendous player – the first Suns superstar – that is unfortunately forgotten by modern NBA fans and analysts.

    Spencer Haywood won the ABA MVP in 1970 averaging 30/19/2 as a ROOKIE. He then averaged 37/20/3 in the playoffs carrying the Denver Rockets to the 2nd round. He then averages 25/12/2 in his 5 seasons playing for the Sonics – the first Supersonics superstar. And he’s forgotten by modern NBA fans and analysts.

    Roger Brown had a short prime where he was the main scorer for the ABA Indiana Pacers and during back to back Finals appearances in 1969–1970, he averaged 27/8/3 and then 29/10/5 for the Pacers leading them to their first championship in 1970. Including games of 53, 39 and 45 points in the Finals against the Los Angeles Stars. And again the only time I’ve heard his name brought up by people is by Reggie Miller sometimes and that’s about it.

    Rick Barry – how good was prime Barry? Well he averaged 36/9/3 in his SECOND year in the league, then 41/8/3 vs Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers in the 1967 Finals. Then he goes to the ABA and leads that league in scoring too averaging 34/9/4 in the 1969 season before he got injured. Then he comes back from injury and he’s just as deadly. 1970 ABA playoffs – averages 40/10/3. 1971 ABA playoffs – averages 34/12/4. 1972 ABA playoffs – leads the New York Nets to their first Finals averaging 31/6/4. Then leads the 1975 Warriors to their first championship in San Francisco averaging 28/6/6. Ridiculous. Yes real basketball fans know Barry but I don’t think people realize how good he was. In his prime he was unguardable in the perimeter or the post and an automatic FT shooter at the line so you couldn’t foul him either.

    George McGinnis – This guy started dominating pretty fast. First year in the ABA, wins a championship as a top 3 player for the ABA Pacers. Second year, averages 28/12/2, wins another championship – this time gets Playoffs (Finals) MVP. Third year, averages 26/15/3. Fourth year, wins MVP, wins scoring title, averages 30/14/6, then carries the Pacers to the Finals averaging 32/16/8. Hardly anyone talks about this guy today.

    Bernard King – Ok this guy.. in his prime he carried the Knicks in the 1984 playoffs to 7 games against the Larry Bird Celtics averaging 35/6/3, then the next year averages 33/6/4 before tearing his ACL. In his prime – totally unstoppable scorer. Not brought up as much as he should be.

    All these guys put up crazy numbers + carried their teams in the playoffs. They deserve more recognition and respect.

  • What would happen if an all-time team from the American basketball Association (ABA) played the 1970s all-time team from National basketball Association (NBA)? Who would win and why?

    I don’t think it’s fair to pit a league that has 9 years of history (ABA) against a league that has 75 years of history (NBA) of course the NBA has a deeper pool of talent.

    I think a better comparison is the All-Time ABA team vs the All-Time 1970s NBA team. This seems fair because both leagues were roughly competing with each other in the 1970s.

    So here’s my picks (I’m leaving more notes for ABA players because most people don’t know as much about them):

    All-Time 1970s NBA Team:

    PG: Walt Frazier

    The other choices are Tiny Archibald or Dave Bing, if we’re going by peaks I might take Tiny for his incredible season averaging 34/3/11 but Frazier is the overall most accomplished PG of the 1970s. Great two way player who can back you down and score or strip the ball away from you.

    SG: John Havlicek

    Havlicek is my shooting guard since he’s a swingman. A consummate team player, unlimited energy, just does everything on the court that’s needed to win. Great two way player.

    SF: Rick Barry

    An unstoppable scorer, you can’t foul him, and a very good passer as well. He might not be the best for team chemistry but you can’t deny his talent.

    PF: Elvin Hayes

    Also thought about moving Dave Cowens or Bob McAdoo to the PF spot, but I’ll still take Hayes over them. Hayes would get you buckets and also be a solid rim protector too. It’s great to have two way players on the team who can help out on both ends of the floor.

    C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    The 70s had a LOT of great centers. Walton, McAdoo, Cowens, Unseld, Moses, Lanier, Thurmond, Reed to name a few. All of them pale in comparison to the great Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

    All-Time ABA Team:

    PG: Louie Dampier

    Not a lot of really great PGs in the ABA. There’s Larry Jones, Jimmy Jones, Mack Calvin, Charlie Scott who are all fine, but I’ll take Dampier for his shooting he’ll space the floor quite nicely – and he’s also the all time ABA scorer so he can definitely put the ball in the hoop. However I do have to note that Calvin and Scott had some ridiculous peaks – Calvin averaged 27/3/8 in his best season and Scott averaged 33/5/5 in his best season so they peaked higher than Dampier did but Dampier had better longevity and consistency.

    SG: Warren Jabali

    You might be wondering who is this guy? Why am I taking him over David Thompson and George Gervin? Well because he played his entire career in the ABA for one, so he’s better qualified for this team, and also he had an incredible peak as an all around player. Not only does he have a career average of 17/7/5 which is great all around but he peaked at 23/10/4 in his best season and a ridiculous 29/13/3 in the 1969 playoffs leading the Oaks to the championship and winning Playoffs MVP (Finals MVP). That’s some legendary stuff he did in his prime. Oh and there’s also Freddie Lewis and Donnie Freeman as well although they don’t have quite the peak or athleticism of Jabali.

    SF: Julius Erving

    As much as I love the underrated Roger Brown (shoutout to his 1970 season where he averaged 29/10/5 en route to winning the championship), and Rick Barry is already on my NBA team so I can’t use him here, but Dr J is the only pick here. How ridiculous was ABA Dr J? Well in 1976 he averaged a monster 35/13/5 en route to winning a championship for the Nets, winning both MVP and Playoffs MVP (Finals MVP) that season. What a beast.

    PF: George McGinnis

    The other options here are Connie Hawkins, Spencer Haywood, Billy Cunningham and Dan Issel all of whom have good arguments for being in this spot. Hawkins however only played 2 seasons in the ABA even though he was ridiculous in those seasons (he averaged 30/12/5 in the 1968 playoffs leading the Pipers to the championship, winning MVP and Playoffs MVP (Finals MVP) in his rookie season). Haywood also had a ridiculous rookie season in the ABA winning MVP and averaging 37/20/3 in the 1970 playoffs. Yes you heard me right. 37/20/3. That’s Wilt Chamberlain numbers. However, he only played 1 season in the ABA. Cunningham played only 2 seasons in the ABA winning MVP in 1973 averaging 24/12/6. Issel played a lot longer in the ABA than those guys but didn’t have the peak they had.
    But.. I’m taking Big Mac over all of them. He played more ABA seasons than Hawkins, Haywood and Cunningham and had a higher peak than Issel did. What did McGinnis do? Well he won 2 rings with the Pacers and a Playoffs MVP (Finals MVP), then won MVP in 1975 averaging 30/14/6 then carried the Pacers to the Finals averaging 32/16/8 in the playoffs. That’s Lebron numbers. That’s how he’s my pick here in a crowded PF spot.

    C: Artis Gilmore

    The other picks here are Mel Daniels and Zelmo Beaty. We can cross Beaty off although he was great in the ABA playing 4 seasons there and winning playoffs MVP (Finals MVP) in 1971, but he doesn’t compare to Gilmore or Daniels. Daniels was the heart of the ABA Pacers dynasty winning 3 championships and 2 MVPs and the ABA’s all time leading rebounder. Gilmore won an MVP, Playoffs MVP (Finals MVP) with the Colonels and led the league in rebounding 4 times. Daniels played longer than Gilmore did in the ABA and had a better career but I would argue Gilmore was the better player. Gilmore was one of the strongest players ever, and when he was in the ABA he was much more agile than he was in the NBA later. Not only was he incredibly efficient but he was also a beast defensively too. He made 5 All-Def teams over Daniels. He also made All-NBA 1st teams as soon as he got into the league which means as soon as he came in the league he was better than Daniels. He also has a significant height advantage over Daniels, who was an undersized center at 6′9. However Daniels had the ‘heart’ that Reed, Cowens, Unseld and Moses and other undersized centers had while Gilmore was sometimes accused of not having enough focus on the court.
    So.. it’s close but I’m taking Gilmore.

    Results of the matchup

    I think it’s closer than people think. Frazier I think would guard Dampier fairly well he would have to guard him like he did Jerry West, Jabali vs Hondo would be an interesting matchup as Jabali was much more explosive than Hondo but Hondo is a solid defender as well – known for being more of an off ball than on ball defender though. Barry vs Dr J is a great matchup that takes you back to the 1972 playoffs where Barry’s Nets faced off against Dr J’s Squires and Barry won in a close 7 game series. But that was a rookie Dr J vs a prime Barry. prime vs prime I think ABA Dr J might be too much to handle. Hayes vs McGinnis.. another interesting matchup. McGinnis was more athletic and explosive and could run the ball up the court like Lebron. Hayes plays more like an older school Anthony Davis, he’s comfortable scoring both in the interior and perimeter and could defend you well in the interior. Hayes was a better defender than Big Mac but Big Mac was better all around on offense. Then for centers.. Kareem vs Gilmore we never saw this matchup in the NBA unfortunately since they played in different conferences. But I’ll say this.. nobody is able to stop prime Kareem. Wilt, prime Walton and Thurmond tried their best and ‘limited’ Kareem to 25 PPG from 30 PPG. I doubt that Gilmore can do much better than Wilt, prime Walton and Thurmond can. and Kareem was a pretty solid defender in the 1970s. Gilmore of course is more limited offensively than Kareem is. So I’m sure Kareem can probably do a decent job on him.

    In the end I’ll probably take the NBA team but it’s closer than you would think.

  • Who are the top NBA players of all time in each position?

    Since I’ve been doing research, spreadsheets and videos about NBA/ABA players at each position for the past 7 years, here’s my latest update as of the end of the 2022 season, the top 40 players at each position all time. These are based on a combination of average raw stats (PPG, RPG, APG) in both regular season and playoffs + career totals + total win shares for both regular season and playoffs + advanced analytics (PER, WS/48, TS%) + accolades (All-Star, All-NBA, All-Def, rings, MVPs, FMVPs, DPOY, PTS leader, RBD leader, AST leader, ROTY, ASG MVP).
    Note that I am excluding All-NBA 3rd team and WCF/ECF MVPs because these were awards created later in the NBA’s history and wouldn’t be fair to earlier players.
    Listed below is the top 40 players of all time at each position with their 3 best accolades followed by their career regular season averages:

    PGs:

    1. Magic Johnson – 5x Champ, 3x MVP, 3x FMVP – 19.5 / 7.2 / 11.2
    2. Stephen Curry – 4x Champ, 2x MVP, 1x FMVP – 24.3 / 4.6 / 6.5
    3. Oscar Robertson – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 11x All-NBA – 25.7 / 7.5 / 9.5
    4. Bob Cousy – 6x Champ, 1x MVP, 8x AST leader – 18.4 / 5.2 / 7.5
    5. Isiah Thomas – 2x Champ, 1x FMVP, 5x All-NBA – 19.2 / 3.6 / 9.3
    6. Chris Paul – 9x All-NBA, 9x All-Def, 5x AST leader – 18.1 / 4.5 / 9.5
    7. John Stockton – 8x All-NBA, 5x All-Def, 9x AST leader – 13.1 / 2.7 / 10.5
    8. Jason Kidd – 6x All-NBA, 9x All-Def, 5x AST leader – 12.6 / 6.3 / 8.7
    9. Walt Frazier – 2x Champ, 6x All-NBA, 7x All-Def – 18.9 / 5.9 / 6.1
    10. Steve Nash – 2x MVP, 5x All-NBA, 5x AST leader – 14.3 / 3.0 / 8.5
    11. Russell Westbrook – 7x All-NBA, 1x MVP, 3x AST leader – 22.8 / 7.4 / 8.4
    12. Gary Payton – 7x All-NBA, 9x All-Def, 1x DPOY – 16.3 / 3.9 / 6.7
    13. Tony Parker – 4x Champ, 1x FMVP, 3x All-NBA – 15.5 / 2.7 / 5.6
    14. Dennis Johnson – 3x Champ, 1x FMVP, 9x All-Def – 14.1 / 3.9 / 5.0
    15. Damian Lillard – 5x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 24.6 / 4.2 / 6.6
    16. Luka Doncic – 3x All-NBA, 3x All-Star – 26.4 / 8.5 / 8.0
    17. Kyrie Irving – 1x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 23.1 / 3.8 / 5.7
    18. Tiny Archibald – 1x Champ, 5x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader – 18.8 / 2.3 / 7.4
    19. Dave Bing – 3x All-NBA, 7x All-Star, 1x PTS leader – 20.3 / 3.8 / 6.0
    20. Lenny Wilkens – 9x All-Star, 1x AST leader, 1x ASG MVP – 16.5 / 4.7 / 6.7
    21. Chauncey Billups – 1x Champ, 1x FMVP, 2x All-Def – 15.2 / 2.9 / 5.4
    22. Jo Jo White – 2x Champ, 1x FMVP, 7x All-Star – 17.2 / 4.0 / 4.9
    23. Slater Martin – 5x Champ, 5x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 9.8 / 3.4 / 4.2
    24. Rajon Rondo – 2x Champ, 4x All-Def, 3x AST leader – 9.8 / 4.5 / 7.9
    25. Maurice Cheeks – 1x Champ, 5x All-Def, 4x All-Star – 11.1 / 2.8 / 6.7
    26. Kevin Johnson – 4x All-NBA, 3x All-Star – 17.9 / 3.3 / 9.1
    27. Tim Hardaway – 4x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 17.7 / 3.3 / 8.2
    28. Kyle Lowry – 1x Champ, 6x All-Star – 14.8 / 4.4 / 6.3
    29. Derrick Rose – 1x MVP, 1x All-NBA, 3x All-Star – 18.2 / 3.3 / 5.4
    30. Louie Dampier – 1x Champ, 4x All-ABA, 7x All-Star – 17.1 / 2.8 / 5.2
    31. Jimmy Jones – 3x All-ABA, 6x All-Star – 16.6 / 4.3 / 4.5
    32. Larry Jones – 3x All-ABA, 4x All-Star, 1x PTS leader – 19.1 / 4.9 / 3.7
    33. Mack Calvin – 4x All-ABA, 5x All-Star – 16.1 / 2.5 / 4.8
    34. Gus Williams – 1x Champ, 2x All-NBA, 2x All-Star – 17.1 / 2.7 / 5.6
    35. Norm Van Lier – 1x All-NBA, 9x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 11.8 / 4.8 / 7.0
    36. Bob Davies – 1x Champ, 5x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 14.3 / 2.9 / 4.9
    37. John Wall – 1x All-Def, 5x All-Star – 19.1 / 4.3 / 9.1
    38. Deron Williams – 2x All-NBA, 3x All-Star – 16.3 / 3.1 / 8.1
    39. Penny Hardaway – 2x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 15.2 / 4.5 / 5.0
    40. Mark Price – 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 15.2 / 2.6 / 6.7

    SGs:

    1. Michael Jordan – 6x Champ, 5x MVP, 6x FMVP – 30.1 / 6.2 / 5.3
    2. Kobe Bryant – 5x Champ, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP – 25.0 / 5.2 / 4.7
    3. Jerry West – 1x Champ, 1x FMVP, 12x All-NBA – 27.0 / 5.8 / 6.7
    4. Dwayne Wade – 3x Champ, 1x FMVP, 5x All-NBA – 22.0 / 4.7 / 5.4
    5. James Harden – 1x MVP, 6x All-NBA, 3x PTS leader – 24.9 / 5.6 / 6.8
    6. George Gervin – 9x All-NBA, 4x PTS leader, 12x All-Star – 25.1 / 5.3 / 2.6
    7. Allen Iverson – 1x MVP, 6x All-NBA, 4x PTS leader – 26.7 / 3.7 / 6.2
    8. Clyde Drexler – 1x Champ, 3x All-NBA, 10x All-Star – 20.4 / 6.1 / 5.6
    9. Sam Jones – 10x Champ, 3x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 17.7 / 4.9 / 2.5
    10. Ray Allen – 2x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 10x All-Star – 18.9 / 4.1 / 3.4
    11. Hal Greer – 1x Champ, 7x All-NBA, 10x All-Star – 19.2 / 5.0 / 4.0
    12. Bill Sharman – 4x Champ, 7x All-NBA, 8x All-Star – 17.8 / 3.9 / 3.0
    13. Tracy McGrady – 5x All-NBA, 2x PTS leader, 7x All-Star – 19.6 / 5.6 / 4.4
    14. Pete Maravich – 4x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 5x All-Star – 24.2 / 4.2 / 5.4
    15. Joe Dumars – 2x Champ, 1x FMVP, 5x All-Def – 16.1 / 2.2 / 4.5
    16. Sidney Moncrief – 5x All-NBA, 5x All-Def, 2x DPOY – 15.6 / 4.7 / 3.6
    17. Reggie Miller – 5x All-Star – 18.2 / 3.0 / 3.0
    18. Manu Ginobili – 4x Champ, 2x All-Star – 13.3 / 3.5 / 3.8
    19. Klay Thompson – 4x Champ, 1x All-Def, 5x All-Star – 19.5 / 3.5 / 2.3
    20. David Thompson – 3x All-NBA, 5x All-Star, 2x ASG MVP – 22.7 / 4.1 / 3.3
    21. Mitch Richmond – 3x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 21.0 / 3.9 / 3.5
    22. Vince Carter – 1x All-NBA, 8x All-Star – 16.7 / 4.3 / 3.1
    23. Freddie Lewis – 3x Champ, 1x FMVP, 4x All-Star – 16.0 / 3.7 / 4.0
    24. Jimmy Butler – 5x All-Def, 6x All-Star – 17.7 / 5.3 / 4.1
    25. Earl Monroe – 1x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 18.8 / 3.0 / 3.9
    26. Gail Goodrich – 1x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 18.6 / 3.2 / 4.7
    27. Alvin Robertson – 1x All-NBA, 6x All-Def, 1x DPOY – 14.0 / 5.2 / 5.0
    28. Warren Jabali – 1x Champ, 1x FMVP, 1x All-ABA – 17.1 / 6.7 / 5.3
    29. Michael Cooper – 5x Champ, 8x All-Def, 1x DPOY – 8.9 / 3.2 / 4.2
    30. Walter Davis – 2x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 18.9 / 3.8 / 3.0
    31. Paul Westphal – 4x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 15.6 / 1.9 / 4.4
    32. Ron Boone – 2x All-ABA, 4x All-Star – 16.8 / 4.2 / 3.7
    33. Charlie Scott – 1x Champ, 2x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 20.7 / 4.4 / 4.9
    34. Demar Derozan – 2x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 20.8 / 4.4 / 3.9
    35. Richie Guerin – 3x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 17.3 / 5.0 / 5.0
    36. Donnie Freeman – 1x Champ, 4x All-ABA, 5x All-Star – 18.9 / 3.5 / 3.5
    37. Rip Hamilton – 1x Champ, 3x All-Star – 17.1 / 3.1 / 3.4
    38. Devin Booker – 1x All-NBA, 3x All-Star – 23.5 / 3.9 / 4.7
    39. Joe Johnson – 7x All-Star – 16.0 / 4.0 / 3.9
    40. Latrell Sprewell – 1x All-NBA, 1x All-Def, 4x All-Star – 18.3 / 4.1 / 4.0

    SFs:

    1. Lebron James – 4x Champ, 4x MVP, 4x FMVP – 27.1 / 7.5 / 7.4
    2. Larry Bird – 3x Champ, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP – 24.3 / 10.0 / 6.3
    3. Julius Erving – 3x Champ, 4x MVP, 2x FMVP – 24.2 / 8.5 / 4.2
    4. Kevin Durant – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP – 27.2 / 7.1 / 4.3
    5. John Havlicek – 8x Champ, 1x FMVP, 11x All-NBA – 20.8 / 6.3 / 4.8
    6. Rick Barry – 2x Champ, 1x FMVP, 10x All-NBA – 24.8 / 6.7 / 4.9
    7. Elgin Baylor – 10x All-NBA, 11x All-Star – 27.4 / 13.5 / 4.3
    8. Scottie Pippen – 6x Champ, 10x All-Def, 5x All-NBA – 16.1 / 6.4 / 5.2
    9. Kawhi Leonard – 2x Champ, 2x FMVP, 2x DPOY – 19.2 / 6.4 / 2.9
    10. Paul Arizin – 1x Champ, 2x PTS leader, 10x All-Star – 22.8 / 8.6 / 2.3
    11. Connie Hawkins – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 18.7 / 8.8 / 4.1
    12. Paul Pierce – 1x Champ, 1x FMVP, 10x All-Star – 19.7 / 5.6 / 3.5
    13. James Worthy – 3x Champ, 1x FMVP, 7x All-Star – 17.6 / 5.1 / 3.0
    14. Billy Cunningham – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 5x All-NBA – 21.2 / 10.4 / 4.3
    15. Dominique Wilkins – 3x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 9x All-Star – 24.8 / 6.7 / 2.5
    16. Adrian Dantley – 2x All-NBA, 2x PTS leader, 6x All-Star – 24.3 / 5.7 / 3.0
    17. Roger Brown – 3x Champ, 1x FMVP, 3x All-ABA – 17.4 / 6.2 / 3.8
    18. Carmelo Anthony – 2x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 10x All-Star – 22.5 / 6.2 / 2.7
    19. Alex English – 3x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 8x All-Star – 21.5 / 5.5 / 3.6
    20. Bernard King – 3x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 4x All-Star – 22.5 / 5.8 / 3.3
    21. Paul George – 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Def, 7x All-Star – 20.4 / 6.4 / 3.6
    22. Bob Dandridge – 2x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 1x All-Def – 18.5 / 6.8 / 3.4
    23. Jamaal Wilkes – 4x Champ, 2x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 17.7 / 6.2 / 2.5
    24. Grant Hill – 5x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 16.7 / 6.0 / 4.1
    25. Marques Johnson – 3x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 20.1 / 7.0 / 3.6
    26. Cliff Hagan – 1x Champ, 2x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 17.7 / 6.6 / 3.2
    27. Chet Walker – 1x Champ, 7x All-Star – 18.2 / 7.1 / 2.1
    28. Jim Pollard – 5x Champ, 4x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 13.2 / 7.8 / 3.2
    29. Willie Wise – 1x Champ, 2x All-ABA, 2x All-Def – 17.6 / 8.3 / 2.9
    30. Gus Johnson – 4x All-NBA, 2x All-Def, 5x All-Star – 16.2 / 12.1 / 2.5
    31. Chris Mullin – 3x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 18.2 / 4.1 / 3.5
    32. Shawn Marion – 1x Champ, 4x All-Star – 15.2 / 8.7 / 1.9
    33. Khris Middleton – 1x Champ, 3x All-Star – 17.1 / 4.9 / 3.8
    34. George Yardley – 2x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader, 6x All-Star – 19.2 / 8.9 / 1.7
    35. Mark Aguirre – 2x Champ, 3x All-Star – 20.0 / 5.0 / 3.1
    36. Jack Twyman – 2x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 19.2 / 6.6 / 2.3
    37. Lou Hudson – 1x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 20.2 / 4.4 / 2.7
    38. Andre Iguodala – 4x Champ, 1x FMVP, 2x All-Def – 11.4 / 4.9 / 4.2
    39. Cedric Maxwell – 2x Champ, 1x FMVP – 12.5 / 6.3 / 2.2
    40. Metta World Peace – 1x Champ, 4x All-def, 1x DPOY – 13.2 / 4.5 / 2.7

    PFs:

    1. Tim Duncan – 5x Champ, 2x MVP, 3x FMVP – 19.0 / 10.8 / 3.0
    2. Kevin Garnett – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 12x All-Def – 17.8 / 10.0 / 3.7
    3. Karl Malone – 2x MVP, 13x All-NBA, 14x All-Star – 25.0 / 10.1 / 3.6
    4. Bob Pettit – 1x Champ, 2x MVP, 2x PTS leader – 26.4 / 16.2 / 3.0
    5. Giannis Antetokounmpo – 1x Champ, 2x MVP, 1x FMVP – 21.8 / 9.4 / 4.6
    6. Dirk Nowitzki – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 20.7 / 7.5 / 2.4
    7. Charles Barkley – 1x MVP, 10x All-NBA, 11x All-Star – 22.1 / 11.7 / 3.9
    8. Elvin Hayes – 1x Champ, 6x All-NBA, 1x PTS leader – 21.0 / 12.5 / 1.8
    9. Dolph Schayes – 1x Champ, 12x All-NBA, 12x All-Star – 18.5 / 12.1 / 3.1
    10. Anthony Davis – 1x Champ, 4x All-NBA, 4x All-Def – 23.8 / 10.2 / 2.3
    11. George McGinnis – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 20.2 / 11.0 / 3.7
    12. Kevin McHale – 3x Champ, 6x All-Def, 7x All-Star – 17.9 / 7.3 / 1.7
    13. Dennis Rodman – 5x Champ, 7x RBD leader, 2x DPOY – 7.3 / 13.1 / 1.8
    14. Dave Debusschere – 2x Champ, 6x All-Def, 8x All-Star – 16.1 / 11.0 / 2.9
    15. Jerry Lucas – 1x Champ, 5x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 17.0 / 15.6 / 3.3
    16. Tom Heinsohn – 8x Champ, 4x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 18.6 / 8.8 / 2.2
    17. Spencer Haywood – 1x MVP, 5x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 20.3 / 10.3 / 1.8
    18. Pau Gasol – 2x Champ, 2x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 17.0 / 9.2 / 3.2
    19. Chris Webber – 4x All-NBA, 1x RBD leader, 5x All-Star – 20.7 / 9.8 / 4.2
    20. Bobby Jones – 1x Champ, 11x All-Def, 5x All-Star – 12.1 / 6.1 / 2.7
    21. Draymond Green – 4x Champ, 7x All-Def, 1x DPOY – 8.7 / 6.9 / 5.4
    22. Chris Bosh – 2x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 11x All-Star – 19.2 / 8.5 / 2.0
    23. Amare Stoudemire – 5x All-NBA, 6x All-Star, ROTY – 18.9 / 7.8 / 1.2
    24. Bailey Howell – 2x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 18.7 / 9.9 / 2.0
    25. Blake Griffin – 3x All-NBA, 6x All-Star, ROTY – 19.8 / 8.2 / 4.1
    26. Vern Mikkelsen – 4x Champ, 4x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 14.4 / 9.4 / 2.2
    27. Kevin Love – 1x Champ, 2x All-NBA, 5x All-Star – 17.6 / 10.7 / 2.4
    28. Lamarcus Aldridge – 2x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 19.1 / 8.1 / 1.9
    29. Shawn Kemp – 3x All-NBA, 6x All-Star – 14.6 / 8.4 / 1.6
    30. Maurice Lucas – 1x Champ, 1x All-ABA, 2x All-Def – 14.6 / 9.1 / 2.4
    31. Buck Williams – 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 12.8 / 10.0 / 1.3
    32. Larry Nance – 3x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 17.1 / 8.0 / 2.6
    33. Dan Roundfield – 1x All-NBA, 5x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 14.3 / 9.2 / 2.0
    34. Bob Love – 2x All-NBA, 3x All-Def, 3x All-Star – 17.6 / 5.9 / 1.4
    35. Elton Brand – 1x All-NBA, 2x All-Star, ROTY – 15.9 / 8.5 / 2.1
    36. Terry Cummings – 1x All-NBA, 2x All-Star – 16.4 / 7.3 / 1.9
    37. Tom Chambers – 2x All-NBA, 4x All-Star, 1x ASG MVP – 18.1 / 6.1 / 2.1
    38. Harry Gallatin – 2x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 13.0 / 11.9 / 1.8
    39. Bob Netolicky – 2x Champ, 1x All-ABA, 4x All-Star – 16.0 / 8.9 / 1.4
    40. Larry Kenon – 1x Champ, 5x All-Star – 17.2 / 8.9 / 2.2

    Cs:

    1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar – 6x Champ, 6x MVP, 2x FMVP – 24.6 / 11.2 / 3.6
    2. Bill Russell – 11x Champ, 5x MVP, 11x All-NBA – 15.1 / 22.5 / 4.3
    3. Wilt Chamberlain – 2x Champ, 4x MVP, 11x RBD leader – 30.1 / 22.9 / 4.1
    4. Shaquille O’Neal – 4x Champ, 1x MVP, 3x FMVP – 23.7 / 10.9 / 2.5
    5. Hakeem Olajuwon – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP – 21.8 / 11.1 / 2.5
    6. Moses Malone – 1x Champ, 3x MVP, 1x FMVP – 20.3 / 12.3 / 1.3
    7. David Robinson – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 8x All-Def – 21.1 / 10.6 / 2.5
    8. George Mikan – 5x Champ, 6x All-NBA, 3x PTS leader – 23.1 / 13.4 / 2.8
    9. Artis Gilmore – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 18.8 / 12.3 / 2.3
    10. Patrick Ewing – 7x All-NBA, 3x All-Def, 11x All-Star – 21.0 / 9.8 / 1.9
    11. Dwight Howard – 6x All-NBA, 5x All-Def, 3x DPOY – 15.7 / 11.8 / 1.3
    12. Mel Daniels – 3x Champ, 2x MVP, 3x RBD leader – 18.4 / 14.9 / 1.8
    13. Willis Reed – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP – 18.7 / 12.9 / 1.8
    14. Dave Cowens – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 3x All-NBA – 17.6 / 13.6 / 3.8
    15. Bill Walton – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 13.3 / 10.5 / 3.4
    16. Dan Issel – 1x Champ, 5x All-ABA, 6x All-Star – 22.6 / 9.1 / 2.4
    17. Nikola Jokic – 2x MVP, 4x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 19.7 / 10.4 / 6.2
    18. Bob McAdoo – 2x Champ, 1x MVP, 3x PTS leader – 22.1 / 9.4 / 2.3
    19. Wes Unseld – 1x Champ, 1x MVP, 1x FMVP – 10.8 / 14.0 / 3.9
    20. Nate Thurmond – 5x All-Def, 7x All-Star – 15.0 / 15.0 / 2.7
    21. Robert Parish – 4x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 9x All-Star – 14.5 / 9.1 / 1.4
    22. Neil Johnston – 1x Champ, 5x All-NBA, 3x PTS leader – 19.4 / 11.3 / 2.5
    23. Dikembe Mutombo – 6x All-Def, 4x DPOY, 8x All-Star – 9.8 / 10.3 / 1.0
    24. Ben Wallace – 1x Champ, 6x All-Def, 4x DPOY – 5.7 / 9.6 / 1.3
    25. Rudy Gobert – 6x All-Def, 3x DPOY, 3x All-Star – 12.4 / 11.7 / 1.3
    26. Joel Embiid – 4x All-NBA, 3x All-Def, 5x All-Star – 26.0 / 11.4 / 3.3
    27. Alonzo Mourning – 2x All-NBA, 2x DPOY, 7x All-Star – 17.1 / 8.5 / 1.1
    28. Bob Lanier – 8x All-Star – 20.1 / 10.1 / 3.1
    29. Walt Bellamy – 4x All-Star – 20.1 / 13.7 / 2.4
    30. Zelmo Beaty – 1x Champ, 1x FMVP, 2x All-ABA – 16.0 / 10.9 / 1.5
    31. Jack Sikma – 1x Champ, 1x All-Def, 7x All-Star – 15.6 / 9.8 / 3.2
    32. Ed Macauley – 1x Champ, 4x All-NBA, 7x All-Star – 17.5 / 7.5 / 3.2
    33. Yao Ming – 2x All-NBA, 8x All-Star – 19.0 / 9.2 / 1.6
    34. Bill Laimbeer – 2x Champ, 1x RBD leader, 4x All-Star – 12.9 / 9.7 / 2.0
    35. Marc Gasol – 2x All-NBA, 1x DPOY, 3x All-Star – 14.0 / 7.4 / 3.4
    36. Karl Anthony-Towns – 3x All-Star – 23.2 / 11.3 / 3.1
    37. Brad Daughtery – 5x All-Star – 19.0 / 9.5 / 3.7
    38. Clyde Lovelette – 3x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 17.0 / 9.5 / 1.6
    39. Larry Foust – 2x All-NBA, 8x All-Star – 13.7 / 9.8 / 1.7
    40. Arnie Risen – 2x Champ, 1x All-NBA, 4x All-Star – 12.0 / 9.7 / 1.7
    Just want to note that while doing this research taking all notable NBA and ABA players in history by position, the PF and C positions are definitely the most stacked, and the SG position the weakest.

  • If DPOY had been awarded in the 1960s and 1970s, which NBA players would have won them?

    Interesting question, it’s hard to know because All-Def wasn’t an award until 1969 and DPOY not an award until 1983.

    So I’m going to go by defensive win shares. It’s not perfect, but it’s something I can go off of.

    source:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_yearly.html

    1950: George Mikan
    1951: George Mikan (2)
    1952: George Mikan (3)
    1953: George Mikan (4)
    1954: George Mikan (5)
    1955: Dolph Schayes
    1956: Maurice Stokes
    1957: Maurice Stokes (2)
    1958: Bill Russell
    1959: Bill Russell (2)
    1960: Bill Russell (3)
    1961: Bill Russell (4)
    1962: Bill Russell (5)
    1963: Bill Russell (6)
    1964: Bill Russell (7)
    1965: Bill Russell (8)
    1966: Bill Russell (9)
    1967: Bill Russell (10)
    1968: Wilt Chamberlain, Mel Daniels (ABA)
    1969: Bill Russell (11), Trooper Washington (ABA)
    1970: Willis Reed, Spencer Haywood (ABA)
    1971: Elvin Hayes, Gerald Govan (ABA)
    1972: Wilt Chamberlain (2), Artis Gilmore (ABA)
    1973: Dave Cowens, Artis Gilmore (ABA) (2)
    1974: Elvin Hayes (2), Artis Gilmore (ABA) (3)
    1975: Elvin Hayes (3), Artis Gilmore (ABA) (4)
    1976: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving (ABA)
    1977: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2)
    1978: Truck Robinson
    1979: Jack Sikma
    1980: Larry Bird
    1981: Larry Bird (2)
    1982: Jack Sikma (2)

    So.. going by DWS, these would be the DPOY winners per year. BIll Russell would have a whopping 11 DPOYs to match his 11 rings. George Mikan would have 5 DPOYs, Artis Gilmore would have 4 DPOYs. Elvin Hayes would have 3 DPOYs. Maurice Stokes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Jack Sikma and Larry Bird would all have 2 DPOYs. Interesting right?